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Java Is Underhyped

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Re: Java Is Underhyped

#21

Post by LaserToy »

nemothekid wrote: post #19
eklavya wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sorry, Go? That can’t be right. I even doubt it’s any more verbose than python or swift. You CAN make it verbose that’s for sure.

> You CAN make it verbose that’s for sure. No true scotsman? Even if you want to argue that Java CAN be made more terse, the vast majority of Java that exists today is incredibly verbose. Even running a Java program is verbose. Java is the only language I've used where it's more common to have a shell script that starts your Java program than just running ./helloworld. And yes, Go is less verbose than Java. Go might…

Verbosity is not a problem in large code bases. Speed of understanding and debugging of what somebody else wrote is.

So, less magic is better. I will take Java codebase over Scala or Python every time, unless it is a toy script which is 100 lines

Re: Java Is Underhyped

#22

Post by Jaxkr »

vinceguidry wrote: post #13

Ah another new dev enamored with IntelliJ. You'd think one day they'd realize that it's the IDE they love, not the language. But in my observation, they never do. Reminds me of a rationalization I heard once about how people pick their brand of cigarettes. They all taste like crap until you're finally addicted, then the one you happen to smoke at the time is now your brand. Every new language / stack now gets compare…

A fair point, haha! I tried PyCharm recently (normally use VS Code) and I was really impressed.

I think my emotions are misplaced: I might just like IntelliJ.

Re: Java Is Underhyped

#24

Post by bpodgursky »

eklavya wrote: post #11
king_magic wrote: post #9

The sheer verbosity of Java is just unbearable when you're used to Python/Go/Swift/etc. No, Java is just about as hyped as it needs to be. Which is to say, it's more or less fine. Not great, not terrible. Middle of the road at best.

I am sorry, Go? That can’t be right. I even doubt it’s any more verbose than python or swift. You CAN make it verbose that’s for sure.

Nobody who has ever written error handling in Go could possibly downvote this comment. Holy moly, the error checking after EVERY interesting method call. Talk about verbose.

Re: Java Is Underhyped

#26

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

I was a Java developer for about 15 years, then switched to Node and Typescript about 4 years ago.

I think this author is going to be up for a rude awakening when it comes to the benefits of nominal typing, as this is the area that I couldn't disagree with more. I've commented about this before, but structural typing in Typescript makes it so much easier to refactor and to get one existing piece of code to confirm to another existing piece of code. Refactor projects in Java could sometimes literally take months when you had a major version upgrade from some important dependency and now you had to replace all your Foo1 objects with Foo2 objects, even though the interfaces themselves were largely the same.

I just find myself sooooo much more productive in the Node/Typescript ecosystem than I ever felt in Java.

Re: Java Is Underhyped

#27

Post by frugalmail »

I think the problem is the cohorts your talking about. There is the dimension of how long you've been programming and how large your software projects are. The folks that gravitate to environments like Java are usually in the high experience large software environment. The other quadrants typically gravitate towards the terse and rapid development platforms.

Re: Java Is Underhyped

#28

Post by dbt00 »

theamk wrote: post #7

There are a few reasons to avoid Java today. - The programs are very verbose for the functionality they provide. There are countless lines of getters, setters, and trivial constructors. While IDE helps to write them, it makes reading existing programs slow and frustrating. Lombok helps, but very few programs use it. - If you do want to use Java ecosystem, there is Scala. It also has strong type system, nice IDE suppo…

Is the Scala language finally stable? I looked at it and discarded it multiple times over the last decade because every significant language revision required changing source code.

Re: Java Is Underhyped

#29

Post by yongjik »

eklavya wrote: post #11
king_magic wrote: post #9

The sheer verbosity of Java is just unbearable when you're used to Python/Go/Swift/etc. No, Java is just about as hyped as it needs to be. Which is to say, it's more or less fine. Not great, not terrible. Middle of the road at best.

I am sorry, Go? That can’t be right. I even doubt it’s any more verbose than python or swift. You CAN make it verbose that’s for sure.

You can write verbose code in any language, but most other languages don't consider it normal to name a class LangDetectLanguageIdentifierUpdateProcessorFactory. (Random example from an open source framework.)
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