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Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

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Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#301

Post by bawolff »

snakedoctor wrote: post #192
dotBen wrote: post #83

First off, your HN submission history is really weird, dude. ( https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=snakedoctor ) If you get a job in customer support at Amazon there is literally no way to get a 'promotion' to a dev role. It's different parts of the org, and you're tarnished with being a CS person. Why? Because it's signaling - people who can do eng roles at Amazon don't take CS roles so they don't bother minin…

Thanks, dude. Yeah I was hesitant if I should've accepted the CS offer. I was planning to transfer internally to a SecEng/Analyst/SDE 1 role. It might've been possible. I tried applying internally, but my applications would just turn in to no longer considered after a while. ytcracker works at Amazon. I sent you an email to take you up on your mock interview offer.

If you need the money you should probably take any job you could get. Customer support is not exactly a natural stepping stone, but its extremely hard to advance your career if you don't have enough money to survive.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#302

Post by sircastor »

BeetleB wrote: post #54

So far none of the replies has mentioned this, and it may be unpopular in HN, but: Seriously consider going back to school and finishing a degree. Although it's "known" that you don't really need a degree for a SW role, there are plenty of well established old school companies that will not consider you at all unless you have a degree. On the flip side, you'll get jobs more easily. A lot of interviewers who choose to…

I’ll support this too. I was more than a decade into my SWE career when I decided to finish college. It’s tough but being on the other side of it I can understand why a college graduate is preferable as a candidate more than someone who hasn’t. And it doesn’t have anything to do with learning to program. University studies are hard, and it’s not the material (for the most part). It’s the effort, and the dedication.

You might see if you can re-enroll in your school.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#303

Post by a3n »

lefstathiou wrote: post #127

I play a key role in our hiring process. Shoot me an email, your resume (in word format so I can comment if necessary) and some times that work next week for 30-45 min chat (after 4pm ET best for me). Think of it as professional networking call and at the end I’ll be as candid and constructive as I can. Email is in my profile.

If, for some reason, you don't have Word, just write it in text format, and use ".doc" as the extension. Whoever opens it will automatically have it magically transformed into commentable Word format. Word readers are available.

I actually sent my resume in .txt to a job. HR called me and asked me to resubmit it in Word. So I changed the extension to .doc, emailed it over.

I was hired.

(But really, with the problems you're having, use Word. This was just a funny but true anecdote.)

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#304

Post by Larrikin »

bawolff wrote: post #228
chillfox wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who was also home schooled and had problems with social interactions in my early twenties the best advice I can give is join several clubs that does things in person. You MUST learn how to make friends, how to not upset people, how to be comfortable in social situations and empathy. To do this I would recommend that you force yourself into social situations regularly. Afterwards spend some time thinking ab…

As someone who sometimes struggles with social stuff, join a club has never been useful advice for me. Its never worked out well, i'm not sure where y'all live where there are actually interesting clubs, and they're pretty awkward environments generally imo. I've had better luck with do something with a more structured environment. E.g. take an in person class (something not work related. Learn sign language or somet…

I think it used to be difficult to find decent clubs outside of school, but sites like meetup have tons of different groups. Language meetups are particularly plentiful. They are different from a class, but they are always open to people of various levels.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#305

Post by javajosh »

void_mint wrote: post #18

Have you tried asking any of the jobs that rejected you're getting rejected? Honestly, just a guess, you're probably giving off bad interpersonal vibes/people don't really like talking to you. Half of interviewing is just being very personable/being able to talk comfortably with other people. Generally in this space (this space meaning those interested in tech/startups/etc) sometimes people struggle in this area but…

>you kinda seem like you might struggle just doing exactly what you're asked to do. Bringing up how frequently you quit things for various reasons or finding issues and bringing them up with your superiors' superiors

Yes, this is what stood out for me. OP sounds malcontented, and habitually dissatisfied with his role, and makes antisocial decisions (like spoofing numbers - which is not just dishonest but shows contempt for the target) that show poor judgement. He compounds the poor judgement by bragging about the previous poor judgement.

The antisocial stuff is implicit in what he doesn't mention: from his descriptions, his workplaces are hollow boxes with some juicy targets (execs) in them and nothing else. Where are the people? There aren't any because at some level they don't exist for the OP. This is, of course, a hallmark trait of narcissism.

The good news (great news, really), is that NPD is one of the most treatable of personality disorders if the person decides they want treatment. The reason? The narcissist is confident in their ability, and confidence helps when you want to shape your own behavior.

The caveat to all this being that free advice is worth what you paid for it, even less if given by a stranger on the internet. But, FWIW, it's my honest take. If it ends up being accurate (if you look up the disorder) and you get help, I'd love to know if this post help you. (See, I'm a little NPD too! ;)

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#307

Post by getoj »

xpe wrote: post #182
hinkley wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you call him a creep, I would call him a go getter. I've not had terribly good luck with people who use the term 'go getter.' Quite a few of them have been creeps. Smooth and slick, definitely, but at the end of the day, manipulative people who I avoid making eye contact with at public events, hoping that they don't remember me. Creeps.

I get the impression it is common for technically oriented people to think of salespeople, marketers, and recruiters as manipulative. In your view, what are some ways you think about the difference between persuasion and manipulation? I've been reading about this very topic in the context of media persuasion.

"The scholar, having to encounter doubts and difficulties on all hands, [...] learns to take nothing for granted; least of all, to make an assumption of his own superior merits. [...] It takes years of patient toil and devoted enthusiasm to master any art or science; and after all, the success is doubtful. He infers that other triumphs must be prepared in like manner at an humble distance: he cannot conceive that any object worth seizing on or deserving of regard, can be carried by a coup de main. [...] It never once enters his head (till it is too late) that impudence is the current coin in the affairs of life; that he who doubts his own merit, never has credit given him by others; [...] that the world judge by appearances, not by realities; and that they sympathize more readily with those who are prompt to do themselves justice, and to show off their various qualifications or enforce their pretensions to the utmost. [...] He who has spent the best part of his time and wasted his best powers in endeavouring to answer the question -- 'What is truth?' -- scorns a lie, and every thing making the smallest approach to one. His mind by habit has become tenacious of, devoted to the truth."

William Hazlitt, The Shyness of Scholars (1827)

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#308

Post by okaram »

It is hard to figure out what the problem may be, without knowing you, so I won't try (feel free to PM if you want to do something like a mock interview).

One thing that may suck, but want to make you aware is that chances are you need to do things worse temporarily, before they become better. You may need to put extra effort now (go to community college etc), for reward later.

One program I'd suggest you explore is AWS Re/Start, https://aws.amazon.com/training/restart/ ... it may be right for you (Amazon also has a similar internal program).

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#309

Post by whymauri »

santoshalper wrote: post #292
klyrs wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, you're absolutely right. I wish that I'd said "this behavior sounds creepy / learn to avoid creepy behavior."

Well, there is an edit link right there in your post. I would describe op's behavior as "desperate" more than creepy. Desperation is really easy to spot and unappealing, my guess is that is shows through in interviews.

IIRC. the edit option expires after 1-2 hours on HN.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#310

Post by javajosh »

inopinatus wrote: post #188
fooblitzky wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many companies large enough to have HR and/or legal departments have rules specifically against providing feedback to candidates on why they were rejected.

I've been a FAANG hiring manager and those rules were not rigidly enforced. There are other deterrents, however. As a younger manager I was keen to respond to such requests, but a significant proportion of unsuccessful candidates would then argue, sometimes quite vehemently, about the validity of the feedback. This curtailed my enthusiasm, and I've been rather selective since.

Interesting. I'm curious: roughly how often did the candidate promise they'd take your feedback constructively, calmly and then argue with you anyway?

(I'd hope it would be close to 0, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was much higher.)

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