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Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

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Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#51

Post by xpressvideoz »

snakedoctor wrote: post #7
codegeek wrote: post #5

Need more details to give you a more accurate feedback. How long you have been working/in the industry in general ? It seems like you have done a few things over the years but don't really seem to have stuck to something that made you a specialist or someone worth hiring. Being brutal here but making assumptions. Do you quit a lot ? Do you have any criminal records that you are not aware of ? Are you too opinionated…

I've quit a lot. I haven't lasted anywhere longer than 2 months. I contribute a lot and then quit after I feel like I'm not getting appropriate compensation. Though I certainly agree that I need to stick with a job. I think ageism, and other biases are in place though. More years of experience I get the less disdained I will be I think. I don't think I'm a know it all. I'm only in my early 20s. I definitely have a lo…

> I think ageism, and other biases are in place though.

I don't understand. Aren't tech jobs generally in favor of young people? I've heard ageism against old people, but not the other way around. I guess you're mistakenly associating people's negative reactions with your age?

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#52

Post by danielheath »

brundolf wrote: post #45
yeezyseezy wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great tip. Earlier in my career I was stuck at a mid-point where I didn't have quite enough experience to get hired by a household-name tech company, and working with third-party recruiters made finding a job easy. Knowing what I know now, I never would have even made it past screening at a lot of companies. They will take a cut of your salary, but they'll also work hard to sell you, as that's the only way…

> They will take a cut of your salary I've never had one that did this (or told me about it, at least). My understanding was that the company is basically paying them to find talent, so you're the product being sold. Sometimes there's even a clause that if you quit too soon they have to give back their commission, which further incentivizes them to make sure you really are a good fit.

If the hiring officer has a budget of 150k for the first year, and the recruiter charges 30k, how much are they going to offer you?

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#54

Post by BeetleB »

So far none of the replies has mentioned this, and it may be unpopular in HN, but:

Seriously consider going back to school and finishing a degree. Although it's "known" that you don't really need a degree for a SW role, there are plenty of well established old school companies that will not consider you at all unless you have a degree. On the flip side, you'll get jobs more easily. A lot of interviewers who choose to interview someone without a degree are doing it "just in case he turns out to be a genius." You are not one (or at least have not shown you are one). Let me be brutally honest: In such companies, you will not get a job if you interview as well as the average candidate who has a degree. Managers don't want to have to justify hiring someone without a degree, and they look worse amongst their peers if a bad hire didn't have a degree than if they did.

> Reading Meyers, Knuth etc. books.

Improving technical skills is always good. However, your role in a company, and your performance, are due to lots of other factors. A person who is average in all areas is generally more desirable than a smart person in one area who is poor in others.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#55

Post by erentz »

As others have noted you’re going to have to stick with things longer, and learn to accept your not the one in charge in most of your roles (especially in the US which has a fairly authoritarian workplace culture). Also you may want to look into the possibility of contracting through agencies.

Are you autistic? You sound like autistic people I know who have similar troubles. It’s helpful to find out if you are and learn about how this affects you earlier in your career rather than later. It can really change how you approach situations at work and with interpersonal relationships so you can stick with things longer. In addition you might find there are autistic hiring programs that can help. (It’s not something you need to advertise but it’s something that’s helpful for you to know about yourself.)

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#56

Post by 20210315 »

I’m an almost 50 year-old English major with a spotty career history, including about 20 years of various forms ‘self-employment’.

Getting a good job can be really, really hard. My current gig at a not-quite-but-almost FAANG took me six months to land. But it’s also entirely possible.

If, like me, you’re not automatically hireable based on your accomplishments, I suggest you approach everything up to the interview as an exercise in marketing. Then treat the interview process as an exercise in sales.

Then all you have to do is get lucky and be prepared to learn as much as you need to to perform in your role.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#58

Post by HunterWare »

brundolf wrote: post #45
yeezyseezy wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great tip. Earlier in my career I was stuck at a mid-point where I didn't have quite enough experience to get hired by a household-name tech company, and working with third-party recruiters made finding a job easy. Knowing what I know now, I never would have even made it past screening at a lot of companies. They will take a cut of your salary, but they'll also work hard to sell you, as that's the only way…

> They will take a cut of your salary I've never had one that did this (or told me about it, at least). My understanding was that the company is basically paying them to find talent, so you're the product being sold. Sometimes there's even a clause that if you quit too soon they have to give back their commission, which further incentivizes them to make sure you really are a good fit.

You likely just didn’t realize it. Usually the head-hunter cut is a % of the new hire’s salary for a length of time and is paid by the hiring company. So you never see it... but if someone gets hired directly then they can usually negotiate a higher salary instead of that money going to the non-existent headhunter. Another way of saying it is that initial offerings through a headhunter are lower since the cost is higher to the company.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#59

Post by lhorie »

Took a glance around the thread. In summary, it sounds like you are still fairly young (in the good sense), have an analytical mind but haven't sticked with anything for longer than 2 months. You said you're worried about your immediate financial future.

In terms of first impressions: a lot of consecutive 2 months stints will look very bad on your resume - a lot of places have 3 months probational period. I don't know what the story is, but this could an issue of tact (i.e. navigating office politics, not antagonizing your boss, that sort of stuff), it could be an issue of confidence (either too much impostor syndrome, or being overconfident and over-entitled), it could be that you're not cut out for the field (black-and-white quitting over disagreements is generally the worst solution to problems compared to compromising, strategic teamwork or just flat out sucking it up). You're gonna need to do some introspection, and you need to prioritize figuring out how you can hold a single job for 3 years. Also, with a job history full of red flags, name dropping famous companies will probably do the opposite of what you want. Consider focusing on selling skillset etc and downplaying (or even omitting) work history.

Be realistic and specific about your actual skillset vs your target role (either you are proficient in ios/js/golang/whatever or you're not, don't "fish" around for "any role")

In terms of target companies: you mentioned FAANG class companies. A lot of these companies tend to look for senior level as a baseline. Consider applying to less competitive jobs (i.e. companies without brand recognition). One way to go about this is to reach out to recruitment agencies.

In terms of balancing target goals and immediate needs: prioritize according to Maslow[0], i.e. it'll do no good trying out your luck trying to find a prestigious 150k+ salary job who knows when if it means your cash flow will make you homeless in 2 months with high probability. Better to swallow your pride and go for something less ideal at least until you can stabilize your financial situation.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#60

Post by BeetleB »

snakedoctor wrote: post #7
codegeek wrote: post #5

Need more details to give you a more accurate feedback. How long you have been working/in the industry in general ? It seems like you have done a few things over the years but don't really seem to have stuck to something that made you a specialist or someone worth hiring. Being brutal here but making assumptions. Do you quit a lot ? Do you have any criminal records that you are not aware of ? Are you too opinionated…

I've quit a lot. I haven't lasted anywhere longer than 2 months. I contribute a lot and then quit after I feel like I'm not getting appropriate compensation. Though I certainly agree that I need to stick with a job. I think ageism, and other biases are in place though. More years of experience I get the less disdained I will be I think. I don't think I'm a know it all. I'm only in my early 20s. I definitely have a lo…

> I contribute a lot and then quit after I feel like I'm not getting appropriate compensation.

Compensation is a negotiation game, so go and learn to negotiate well. One key aspect is to understand the perspective of the other side. In this particular case, you would learn that giving pay raises "out of cycle" is a pain for all involved, and a manager doesn't want to discuss salary every time a report of his does something great.

If you want something, make it easier for others to give it to you.

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