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The Bitcoin Crash

bbc.co.uk

11–20 of 62 posts

Re: The Bitcoin Crash

#11
post #9
post #6

FTA: He also questioned the fundamental workings of the currency, saying that its emphasis on anonymity and decentralised nature meant there was little recourse for users when things go wrong So just like... Cash?

Cash is actually numbered so you can for example trace bills payed as ransom

In Bitcoins all the transactions are publicly logged (by design - it's the public nodes that actually perform and verify the transaction), so you can do the same.

See http://blockexplorer.com

Re: The Bitcoin Crash

#12
"The system has proved popular with online criminals"

Citation needed. Are there any stats on where BitCoin are being spent? Everybody says BitCoin could be useful for criminals, but how big is the adoption so far? How much business did Silk Road generate?

Re: The Bitcoin Crash

#13
post #10
post #6

FTA: He also questioned the fundamental workings of the currency, saying that its emphasis on anonymity and decentralised nature meant there was little recourse for users when things go wrong So just like... Cash?

Bitcoins are less anonymous than cash, since all transactions are visible. Anonymous identities may be inferred from known identities in a step-by-step process.

[deleted]

Re: The Bitcoin Crash

#14
I really wonder who is the person whose coins were being sold off. I mean, that's the real story here: somebody had many tens of thousands of BTC that were stolen from his MtGox account and were sold off at a very low price. (The story that people were buying BTC at very low prices is a distraction, the real story is that somebody was SELLING at this low price.)

The other thing is that MtGox did not suspend trading once market moved 20%. I think if it had such failsafe it could have prevented this fiasco. (Should shut down the marketplace once market moves 20% in any direction to reassess the situation and check if there is technical error or panic, or similar event that requires additional intervention. Any mature market requires such failsafe.)

Re: The Bitcoin Crash

#15
post #14

I really wonder who is the person whose coins were being sold off. I mean, that's the real story here: somebody had many tens of thousands of BTC that were stolen from his MtGox account and were sold off at a very low price. (The story that people were buying BTC at very low prices is a distraction, the real story is that somebody was SELLING at this low price.) The other thing is that MtGox did not suspend trading o…

Why should a panic require intervention? If somebody wants to sell his Bitcoins way below the market price - why stop him?

Re: The Bitcoin Crash

#16
post #15
post #14

I really wonder who is the person whose coins were being sold off. I mean, that's the real story here: somebody had many tens of thousands of BTC that were stolen from his MtGox account and were sold off at a very low price. (The story that people were buying BTC at very low prices is a distraction, the real story is that somebody was SELLING at this low price.) The other thing is that MtGox did not suspend trading o…

Why should a panic require intervention? If somebody wants to sell his Bitcoins way below the market price - why stop him?

Not a panic in itself is the problem. But as the grantparent mentions, there might be a technical issue (such as a hack, in this case) if such an irrational thing happens.

Safest action in that case is to halt the market temporarily (as well as delay withdraws) and investigate.

Re: The Bitcoin Crash

#17
Bitcoin will recover, but right now it is going through a liquidity crisis:

Only a small percentage of BTC users were using Tradehill, a competitive BTC exchange. People have rushed to create accounts there, however it takes a few days to transfer money in, so right now there are more sellers than buyers, causing prices to go lower. In addition, apparently some people have their money tied up in unreachable MtGox accounts so are unable to trade.

MtGox has some serious issues to deal with. Finally yesterday, on the 3rd day after the exchange was brought down, they instituted an account recovery page, where you can provide information about your account and try to prove it is yours. Their support people are manually reviewing account information and will give you access when they feel you have sufficiently verified the info.

It looks very fishy, like MtGox is intentionally delaying access to people's accounts in order to prevent a run on the exchange. We don't know exactly how much money or coins were actually stolen from MtGox, but it is entirely possible that someone figured out a way to transfer a large amount of coins or real currency out of there. It might be possible that MtGox cannot make all investors whole again, so they are reenabling accounts just a few at a time and hoping that not everyone withdraws their funds at once.

Personally, I never kept a balance of either USD or BTC in MtGox. Their site looked too amateur to trust with money. I would sell my coins and transfer them to Dwolla immediately. Right now, all of the exchanges look sketchy. I would not trust a single VPS running MySQL at all with what could be millions of dollars.

Re: The Bitcoin Crash

#18
post #15
post #14

I really wonder who is the person whose coins were being sold off. I mean, that's the real story here: somebody had many tens of thousands of BTC that were stolen from his MtGox account and were sold off at a very low price. (The story that people were buying BTC at very low prices is a distraction, the real story is that somebody was SELLING at this low price.) The other thing is that MtGox did not suspend trading o…

Why should a panic require intervention? If somebody wants to sell his Bitcoins way below the market price - why stop him?

Circuit breakers give the exchange a chance to cool off and think things over. It isn't really intervention. It's just a halt to trades and they could take their BTC to Tradehill if they really feel like selling. Bitcoin fans like to pretend that all aspects of it should be unregulated, but when you take a decentralized currency and then place it in a centralized exchange, that mentality is no longer applicable and you have to deal with it like any other traded commodity. This includes security measures and circuit breakers on the exchanges.

Re: The Bitcoin Crash

#19
This is one of the most balanced coverage of the Bitcoin issue I have seen. "The system has proved popular with online criminals, keen to keep their financial transactions secret, although it has a wider, legitimate, user base." Nicely researched. Kudos to the BBC team. Shows why BBC is still the trusted source for many of us.

Re: The Bitcoin Crash

#20
post #14

I really wonder who is the person whose coins were being sold off. I mean, that's the real story here: somebody had many tens of thousands of BTC that were stolen from his MtGox account and were sold off at a very low price. (The story that people were buying BTC at very low prices is a distraction, the real story is that somebody was SELLING at this low price.) The other thing is that MtGox did not suspend trading o…

The amount sold was over 500000 BTC - more that all estimated deposits on MtGox. The likely explanation is that these were just virtual BTCs added through SQL injection. The alternatives are that a single person was keeping that much on an exchange rumored to be insecure and used insecure password (easily cracked from leaked md5 hashes), or the person decided to sell half his BTC for $0.01 - an extra $2500 in addition to hundred thousands.
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