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Coinbase from YC to DPO

blog.ycombinator.com

861–870 of 883 posts

Re: Coinbase from YC to DPO

#861

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Coinbase brought a true sense of legitimacy and trustworthiness to Bitcoin exchanging. I could be wrong but to me this makes every shill for crypto that says "it's anonymous!" a joke. I had to provide a driver's license and do checking account verification to be approved on Coinbase. Does that not remove the anonymity or am I missing something?

Bitcoin CAN be used anonymously if you never use an online exchange to convert fiat to Bitcoin or vice versa. But yeah, otherwise I agree with you. Once you've bought your Bitcoin from Coinbase, your name is attached to a Bitcoin address. Law enforcement might not know where the coins go once you spend them, but they could subpoena you or otherwise make some sort of legal demand to know who you sent them to if they s…

> Bitcoin CAN be used anonymously if you never use an online exchange to convert fiat to Bitcoin or vice versa.

How do you get a Bitcoin wallet registered and get funds into it?

Re: Coinbase from YC to DPO

#862
post #830
post #640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spoke to him on the phone within a few hours of that post, as I had already prototyped an app to do what was described. I didn't launch mine, nor participate in his (obviously). I suggested that a business in that space, if successful, would result in a similar outcome as happened to other founders of international money transmission systems that weren't under direct government control: i.e. swatting. He was not di…

Charlie Shrem (BitInstant) was a bit less lucky, or maybe it was "too early"?

[deleted]

Re: Coinbase from YC to DPO

#863
post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, so instead of knocking your nodes offline, the attacker only has to commandeer them for just long enough to commit a slashable offense. That's usually easier anyway. This is fundamentally a double-edged sword -- the harsher your penalties are for bad behavior, the easier it is for someone to use a zero-day and kill your staking coins. But the laxer your penalties are, the more damage a buggy or malicious node c…

At least on Cardano, slashing is extraordinarily unlikely and only occurs during recovery from a successful attack. The idea being that the community forks from the moment before the attack and slashes the funds from the attacker. In the case of a zero-day or other attack where the stake pools are forced into being unwilling attackers due to circumstances excluding negligence, KES keys are invalidated/regenerated and…

Hi, notice that I'm not proactively bringing up any specific cryptocurrencies, let alone the same cryptocurrency over and over in the same thread. This is because I'm not a bagholder.

I have no interest in talking to bagholders. The science and engineering details of cryptocurrency design and implementation are by definition beyond a bagholder's comprehension. The act of holding bags precludes formulating a dispassionate understanding of cryptocurrencies -- as Upton Sinclair put it, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it."

You see, if I was a bagholder, I would have a hard time comprehending why it's a terrible idea to fall back to the "community" trying to decide which fork is valid. If the community members had high enough trust in one another that they don't need the blockchain (specifically, a fork-ranking protocol) to come to a valid majoritarian decision on which fork is the right fork, then we really don't need the blockchain in the first place! The same sinews of trust can be used to decide what everyone's balance is at all times, since after all, the community members already trust one another to decide which transaction histories (out of many) is the true ledger. But thankfully, I'm not a bagholder, which means I can see that this assumption about the community is not viable.

Also, if I was a bagholder, I would have a hard time comprehending why attackers don't just try and buy 51% of the stake. It would be difficult for me to understand that attackers are going to take the path of least-effort, which would be the act of knocking nodes offline and/or exploiting zero-days on nodes hosting staking coins in a bid to get the network to slash enough of the honest coins that quorum can no longer be met. But thankfully, I'm not a bagholder, which means I understand this weakness.

In addition, if I was a bagholder, I would have a hard time understanding that PoW and PoS security in their "happy paths" is irrelevant. The resilience of blockchains is determined by their unhappy path behaviors. PoW requires less proactive trust and coordination between community members than PoS -- and thus is better able to recover from both liveness and safety failures -- precisely because it both (1) provides a computational method for ranking fork quality, and (2) allows anyone to participate in producing a fork at any time. If the canonical chain is 51%-attacked, and the attack eventually subsides, then the canonical chain can eventually be re-established in-band by honest miners simply continuing to work on the non-attacker chain. In PoS, block-producers have no such protocol -- such a protocol cannot exist because to the rest of the network, it looks like the honest nodes have been slashed for being dishonest. Any recovery procedure necessarily includes block-producers having to go around and convince people out-of-band that they were totally not dishonest, and were slashed due to a "hack" (and, since there's lots of money on the line, who knows if they're being honest about this?). But thankfully, I'm not a bagholder, so I understand the difference.

It's great to know that you, too, are not a bagholder, and you're continuously bringing up Cardano solely because it's a motivating but misguided example, and has nothing to do with how many Cardano tokens you own. Otherwise, I'd have nothing to say to you at all, and if HN had the feature, I'd have simply blocked you already.

Re: Coinbase from YC to DPO

#864

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of exchanges out there, so I would say yes.

but Gemini is the only other regulated US one. Coinbase is huge, even bigger than binance. Something like 50 million ppl have an account. Ppl wondered why the July 2020 Twitter hacker made so little. The reason is, coinabse blocked withdrawals to the hacker address, which if they hadn't, the hackers would have made 3x more..so let that sink in..

Sure, Google is also huge. Would that mean there is no search engine market when they wouldn't have been there?

Coinbase is huge because of the user demand, not the other way around.

Re: Coinbase from YC to DPO

#865
post #705

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can make the same argument about any asset class. The path from Bitcoin/gold/real estate/crops to other goods or assets goes through dollars out of convenience (because your destination is purchasable in dollars). Don't confuse convenience with necessity.

The number of things I can exchange dollars for vastly outnumbers the number of things I can exchange Bitcoin for, by orders of magnitude. In this case convenience is necessity, for practical, real-world definitions. Sure, in a theoretical sense, there is no reason why I couldn't use Bitcoin to buy food and clothing, make rent/mortgage payments, buy plane/train/bus tickets, buy furniture, tools, electronics, etc. But…

Yes but that would obviously no longer be true if dollars no longer "worked" (let's say 10k% inflation for the sake of argument). There would be _something_ of value that things could be exchanged for.

Re: Coinbase from YC to DPO

#866
post #852

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why stop there? Let's add in Visa too. If we're gonna add Visa, let's add Mastercard. What about banks though? Maybe we add in JP Morgan? If Coinbase has network effects, they're incredibly weak. I'll drop my Coinbase account tomorrow if I find a cheaper, safe place to buy coins. Schwab on the other hand has inarguably the best checking account out there, incredible customer service, and a great brokerage. Coinbase i…

« Coinbase is in a race to the bottom » 90%+ of industries are. It's what capitalism is all about. It's not unique to Coinbase. « Grandma ain't making a Coinbase checking account » She already did. They have 56 million verified user accounts. Twice more than Schwab. A lot of grandmas in this user base :)

> 90%+ of industries are

This is a very simple understanding of economics that's ~100 years outdated. Most of the world's largest companies sell goods and services with relatively inelastic demand and/or significant barriers to market entry. What IP does Coinbase have that makes their service/good inelastic? Tomorrow when all coins are supported on Robinhood, Cash app, and Venmo, why use Coinbase? COIN investors haven't given me a good answer here. It just comes off delusional to me.

> They have 56 million verified user accounts.

This is a deceptive number. Coinbase has ~6M monthly active users at a time when crypto grew in value 10x. Average account duration is, I'm sure, very low. Schwab has ~30M active brokerage accounts. These are actual, comparable numbers. 56M is pretty much anyone that made an account with a linked email, no?

Re: Coinbase from YC to DPO

#867

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like hyperinflation and an economic crash? I'm not convinced either will happen, but they seem squarely within the realm of possibility.

...why would I want to accept Bitcoin in that case? Pretty sure I am going to want either some other country's currency -- because I still need to buy imported food or fuel or whatever -- or things have gotten so bad that I no longer hand reliable enough Internet service to make use of Bitcoin.

Because Bitcoin has not experienced the same inflation as USD? I'm not sure what point you're trying to argue honestly.

> Pretty sure I am going to want either some other country's currency -- because I still need to buy imported food or fuel or whatever

Explain why, just saying you want Euros or something isn't a very convincing argument. Importing cash Euros is non trivial, and good luck finding banks and credit cards that let you transact in them.

Re: Coinbase from YC to DPO

#868

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coinbase does things that have no NYSE parallel, for example running a centralized ETH staking service (they keep 50% of the profits, which are 5+% of staked ETH so it's very high margin). Of course anybody can run a service like that, but Coinbase has the brand name and a leg up on compliance/legal so they'll get to charge a big premium on this stuff.

The ETH staking seems to be "coming soon?"

Yeah, not sure when but it's certainly happening.

Re: Coinbase from YC to DPO

#869

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin CAN be used anonymously if you never use an online exchange to convert fiat to Bitcoin or vice versa. But yeah, otherwise I agree with you. Once you've bought your Bitcoin from Coinbase, your name is attached to a Bitcoin address. Law enforcement might not know where the coins go once you spend them, but they could subpoena you or otherwise make some sort of legal demand to know who you sent them to if they s…

> Bitcoin CAN be used anonymously if you never use an online exchange to convert fiat to Bitcoin or vice versa. How do you get a Bitcoin wallet registered and get funds into it?

You don't need to "register" a Bitcoin wallet anywhere.

If you download the desktop client, you have a wallet, and you don't need to log in or register anywhere. You can then create a Bitcoin address and have Bitcoin sent to it.

Re: Coinbase from YC to DPO

#870
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, maybe a month ago I found a Coinbase account from 2013 that I had forgotten about, and it still had everything in it. Your story makes no sense. Coinbase support has always been pretty good for every problem I've ever had. Why talk to someone on the phone when you can click a button and have a live chat with a support agent instantly? https://help.coinbase.com/en/contact-us

How much did you have? A ton or just a little

Not a lot, I think I had like 10 dollars in there, which is why I forgot about it, and it was up to a couple thousand. I did randomly find a few BTC in a paper wallet when cleaning out my office a couple years ago, that was fun.
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