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The U.S. corn belt has lost a third of its topsoil

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: The U.S. corn belt has lost a third of its topsoil

#111

Post by dagss »

titzer wrote: post #58
gumby wrote: post #2

Modern farming is not the bucolic system drawn on the food packages in the supermarket. It's an extractive industry little different from mining or oil drilling. In fact industrial food is largely eating oil, both in energy intensity itself and the use of oil as feedstock for fertilizers and food additives.

I come from a long line of farmers. My father was the last of our family to try to hold onto the farming tradition. He grew up on a farm, along with all my aunts and uncles. His generation was the first go to college. He chose business. He made a ton of money, and hated it. After leaving the business world in the mid 1980s to return to farming, it was not the same, and he soon returned to what was effectively day tra…

Makes me think of easter island. When our civilization perishes, money will seem as useful as those statues.

Re: The U.S. corn belt has lost a third of its topsoil

#112

Post by 99_00 »

meowkit wrote: post #108
99_00 wrote: post #68

Right now there is no financial incentive to preserve topsoil. In the future there will be. So why artificially create incentive to pay the higher cost now when we can punt to the future where technology will be so much better and the cost will probably be lower?

Same problem with climate change. 1) You assume technology will be better. There is no guarantee that this will be true. 2) Externalities like mass migration or civil unrest that could occur from food shortages would mean we don’t have a chance in the future to tackle the problem effectively.

Nuclear power can solve climate change now. Technology doesn't need to be better.

People don't want to solve the problem now because

1) We don't need to solve it now

2) Fear of impending doom is a great way to push a wide array of agendas (ideological, economic, political) forward.

Re: The U.S. corn belt has lost a third of its topsoil

#113

Post by anonporridge »

titzer wrote: post #58
gumby wrote: post #2

Modern farming is not the bucolic system drawn on the food packages in the supermarket. It's an extractive industry little different from mining or oil drilling. In fact industrial food is largely eating oil, both in energy intensity itself and the use of oil as feedstock for fertilizers and food additives.

I come from a long line of farmers. My father was the last of our family to try to hold onto the farming tradition. He grew up on a farm, along with all my aunts and uncles. His generation was the first go to college. He chose business. He made a ton of money, and hated it. After leaving the business world in the mid 1980s to return to farming, it was not the same, and he soon returned to what was effectively day tra…

Self sustaining societies will always be out competed and subsumed by extractive ones.

Re: The U.S. corn belt has lost a third of its topsoil

#114

Post by CountSessine »

smegger001 wrote: post #107
CountSessine wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If another state scheduled their's ahead of Iowa's, Iowa's state officials would be legally required to reschedule Iowa's ahead of this other state's. It would be super fun if another state passed a similar law.

is it bad of me that I want this to happen to end the madness. I can just imagine Iowa trying to sue another state for doing this.

I want this to happen too

Re: The U.S. corn belt has lost a third of its topsoil

#115

Post by nobrains »

I think everyone needs to learn from the ancient wisdom on the Punjab province in India and Pakistan.

Open Google earth and zoom into Punjab. It is the greenest agriculture zone in the entire world. Just look at it yourself.

Now I don't know the specifics, but it is a starting point. If we are able to get the knowledge from the locals there on their ancient farming techniques, that knowledge will be net positive for the world.

And one more thing. The GMO crops being introduced I that region needs to STOP. It will kill the best farming land we have and then there will be no ability to rewind time.

Read about the recent farmers protests there to also know more about the problems the farmers are facing.

Re: The U.S. corn belt has lost a third of its topsoil

#116

Post by awillen »

nobrains wrote: post #115

I think everyone needs to learn from the ancient wisdom on the Punjab province in India and Pakistan. Open Google earth and zoom into Punjab. It is the greenest agriculture zone in the entire world. Just look at it yourself. Now I don't know the specifics, but it is a starting point. If we are able to get the knowledge from the locals there on their ancient farming techniques, that knowledge will be net positive for…

GMO crops allow us to grow more food with less space/nutrients/etc. They are a solution, not a problem, and when people fear monger about them it hurts everyone.

Re: The U.S. corn belt has lost a third of its topsoil

#117

Post by fallingfrog »

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #29
nuisance-bear wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we shouldn't burn ethanol in cars. Maybe we shouldn't load up every food product with corn syrup.

Corn in the US is heavily subsidized. It's why corn syrup is so prevalent in US foods, because the subsidies mean it's cheaper than any other sources of sugar. In the US, Iowa is the largest producer of corn [1] (producing nearly 40% more than the next, Illinois,) and thus the greatest beneficiary of those corn subsidies. Could we reduce those corn subsidies? No, it's politically nonviable, in part because Iowa has e…

It’s my understanding that these subsidies came into existence in the Great Depression when farming was unprofitable even while people were starving. The government came to the realization that free market forces are not enough to stabilize the supply of food, and when food becomes unavailable... bad things happen. Car companies can go out of business and the country will survive, airlines can fail and the country will survive, movie theaters can go bankrupt and the country will survive, but food? That’s an existential crisis for the whole nation. When large masses of people start to starve, you’re looking at political change. You don’t fuck around with your food supply. You can’t just leave that up to supply and demand. Hence it’s subsidized and managed.

Re: The U.S. corn belt has lost a third of its topsoil

#118

Post by spaetzleesser »

snarf21 wrote: post #19
gumby wrote: post #2

Modern farming is not the bucolic system drawn on the food packages in the supermarket. It's an extractive industry little different from mining or oil drilling. In fact industrial food is largely eating oil, both in energy intensity itself and the use of oil as feedstock for fertilizers and food additives.

I'm not worried about the soil, I'm worried about the water. The Ogallala Aquifer is shrinking. The more it shrinks, the more there will be compaction preventing it from refilling to previous states. We can always grow food in water but getting clean water will be an increasingly difficult task. Look how bad it already is in CA.

I's not an "either/or". You should worry about both. Some areas are having a problem with soil, some with water and some with both.

Re: The U.S. corn belt has lost a third of its topsoil

#119

Post by debacle »

sp332 wrote: post #31
debacle wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hydroponically grown vegetables tend to be nutrientless sponges. Hydroponically grown celery tastes like water. Fresh, dirt-grown celery is nearly inedible because of how sharp and metallic the flavor is. Industrial and lab-grown meat will face the same problems.

I've heard exactly the opposite about hydroponic vegetables. I suppose it depends on what nutrients the plants are given in the water. What is your experience?

It's 100% the nutrients + minerals. When you get right down to it, you're just trading one growing medium for another.

That said, hydroponics allows for a level of control in nutrients that soil does not, generally leading to weighty, tasteless veggies.

Re: The U.S. corn belt has lost a third of its topsoil

#120

Post by ekam »

nobrains wrote: post #115

I think everyone needs to learn from the ancient wisdom on the Punjab province in India and Pakistan. Open Google earth and zoom into Punjab. It is the greenest agriculture zone in the entire world. Just look at it yourself. Now I don't know the specifics, but it is a starting point. If we are able to get the knowledge from the locals there on their ancient farming techniques, that knowledge will be net positive for…

Thanks for highlighting the protests-it’s getting really bad over there. My dad is a farmer from Punjab originally and while he’s in America now and doesn’t farm he has a slightly different perspective. He tends to be far more concerned about todays farmers using harmful pesticides and overworking the land than GMOs. Maybe Punjabis on HN can shed more light, but at least from what I’ve heard GMOs are not the big issue in contemporary Punjabi farming
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