The U.S. corn belt has lost a third of its topsoil • Hacker News Board

Re: The U.S. corn belt has lost a third of its topsoil

#31

Post by sp332 » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 8:45 PM UTC

debacle wrote: post #23

FredPret wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’ll probably be eating lab-grown meat and hydroponically-grown vegetables by then. If we’re not all uploaded to a server embedded in the planet’s core or orbiting the sun.

Hydroponically grown vegetables tend to be nutrientless sponges. Hydroponically grown celery tastes like water. Fresh, dirt-grown celery is nearly inedible because of how sharp and metallic the flavor is. Industrial and lab-grown meat will face the same problems.

I've heard exactly the opposite about hydroponic vegetables. I suppose it depends on what nutrients the plants are given in the water. What is your experience?

Re: The U.S. corn belt has lost a third of its topsoil

#32

Post by throwaway894345 » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 8:45 PM UTC

snarf21 wrote: post #19

gumby wrote: post #2

Modern farming is not the bucolic system drawn on the food packages in the supermarket. It's an extractive industry little different from mining or oil drilling. In fact industrial food is largely eating oil, both in energy intensity itself and the use of oil as feedstock for fertilizers and food additives.

I'm not worried about the soil, I'm worried about the water. The Ogallala Aquifer is shrinking. The more it shrinks, the more there will be compaction preventing it from refilling to previous states. We can always grow food in water but getting clean water will be an increasingly difficult task. Look how bad it already is in CA.

It seems to me that aquifers aren't sustainable water sources to begin with--we shouldn't treat them as a primary water source, but rather as a reserve source for scarce years. On the other hand, topsoil could be sustainable (at least for very large time scales) provided it's properly managed.

Re: The U.S. corn belt has lost a third of its topsoil

#33

Post by searine » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 8:46 PM UTC

milkytron wrote: post #15

CapitalistCartr wrote: post #10

These topsoil crisis stories have been running since the 1930s, and are still nonsense. Modern farming doesn't depend on soil nutrients. The soil is tested, then minerals and petrochemical fertilizers are added. The soil is basically a growing medium.

Wasn't the dust bowl caused by topsoil degradation? That seemed like a very substantial crises for wide swaths of the country's population.

>Wasn't the dust bowl caused by topsoil degradation?

No. It was caused by extensive deep tillage as method of pest control.

We have better tools and methods now.

Re: The U.S. corn belt has lost a third of its topsoil

#34

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 8:47 PM UTC

nuisance-bear wrote: post #7

gumby wrote: post #2

Modern farming is not the bucolic system drawn on the food packages in the supermarket. It's an extractive industry little different from mining or oil drilling. In fact industrial food is largely eating oil, both in energy intensity itself and the use of oil as feedstock for fertilizers and food additives.

Maybe we shouldn't burn ethanol in cars. Maybe we shouldn't load up every food product with corn syrup.

[deleted]

Re: The U.S. corn belt has lost a third of its topsoil

#35

Post by sp332 » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 8:47 PM UTC

milkytron wrote: post #15

CapitalistCartr wrote: post #10

These topsoil crisis stories have been running since the 1930s, and are still nonsense. Modern farming doesn't depend on soil nutrients. The soil is tested, then minerals and petrochemical fertilizers are added. The soil is basically a growing medium.

Wasn't the dust bowl caused by topsoil degradation? That seemed like a very substantial crises for wide swaths of the country's population.

It was caused by lack of cover plants. Farms are using cover crops like ryegrass more because it helps keep water in the soil better.

Re: The U.S. corn belt has lost a third of its topsoil

#36

Post by Edman274 » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 8:48 PM UTC

milkytron wrote: post #15

CapitalistCartr wrote: post #10

These topsoil crisis stories have been running since the 1930s, and are still nonsense. Modern farming doesn't depend on soil nutrients. The soil is tested, then minerals and petrochemical fertilizers are added. The soil is basically a growing medium.

Wasn't the dust bowl caused by topsoil degradation? That seemed like a very substantial crises for wide swaths of the country's population.

"These topsoil crisis stories have been running ever since that time that topsoil crisis killed thousands and caused widespread food insecurity. Utter hogwash. Well, it would be hogwash if any of the hogs had anything to eat."

Re: The U.S. corn belt has lost a third of its topsoil

#37

Post by selimthegrim » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 8:48 PM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #13

selimthegrim wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sarah Taber covers this very well on her Twitter (even though she has a particular anti-dairy ax to grind)

There is more than one twitter account that comes up when you search for that name. I assume you mean this one (whom I happen to be following already and didn't realize it): https://twitter.com/SarahTaber_bww

Yes that’s her.

Re: The U.S. corn belt has lost a third of its topsoil

#38

Post by stakkur » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 8:49 PM UTC

Yes. But most of the crop grown in that 'corn belt' is not for human consumption, it's for feeding livestock. We're destroying farmland to feed our need for meat. The rest of the crop in the Corn Belt--soybeans--is mostly exported abroad.

Re: The U.S. corn belt has lost a third of its topsoil

#39

Post by FredPret » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 8:49 PM UTC

debacle wrote: post #23

FredPret wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’ll probably be eating lab-grown meat and hydroponically-grown vegetables by then. If we’re not all uploaded to a server embedded in the planet’s core or orbiting the sun.

Hydroponically grown vegetables tend to be nutrientless sponges. Hydroponically grown celery tastes like water. Fresh, dirt-grown celery is nearly inedible because of how sharp and metallic the flavor is. Industrial and lab-grown meat will face the same problems.

Uhm... no.

Ever actually had any? How do you what lab-grown meat will taste like? And why do you think lots of pot-smokers insist on the hydroponic kind? For the weak watery effect?

Re: The U.S. corn belt has lost a third of its topsoil

#40

Post by tastyfreeze » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 8:51 PM UTC

snarf21 wrote: post #19

gumby wrote: post #2

Modern farming is not the bucolic system drawn on the food packages in the supermarket. It's an extractive industry little different from mining or oil drilling. In fact industrial food is largely eating oil, both in energy intensity itself and the use of oil as feedstock for fertilizers and food additives.

I'm not worried about the soil, I'm worried about the water. The Ogallala Aquifer is shrinking. The more it shrinks, the more there will be compaction preventing it from refilling to previous states. We can always grow food in water but getting clean water will be an increasingly difficult task. Look how bad it already is in CA.

You should be worried about soil. Increasing the soil organic matter improves its water holding capacity, improves tilth and increases infiltration rate. In turn that decreases how much water is needed for crops in dry times and allows recharging of aquifers.

With the currently degraded soil, farmers worry about a couple inches of rain causing washouts or flash floods. Water runs over the top of the soil into surface waterways. Healthy soil can infiltrate many inches of rain an hour.

Infiltration example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggDY35gGBkA

Longer soil health vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBnsgzeNIng