Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#1

Post by snakedoctor » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 7:23 PM UTC

I've been trying to get a job for over a year now. I've interviewed at Google, Facebook, Dell, Airbnb, Palantir. Too many to list. I've applied to companies from the whoishiring thread every monthly. workatastartup etc. Always ending with ghosting, or a impasive rejection letter. I tried improving my interview skills. Reading Meyers, Knuth etc. books. Reading advice on Reddit etc. But I still always get rejected. I worked at EA (QA on Apex Legends), and IBM (dev) at 18. Quit due to lowpay/no insurance. Got referrals etc. dropped out my freshmen year at a top 40 college. Was on the cyber security team etc. College was too expensive so I had to dropout.

Got a low level customer support role at Amazon. But I only made $15 with no health insurance. Found some flaws within the anti-fraud system at Amazon, and wrote a detailed e-mail to the VP in charge of the anti-fraud system. It was fixed by 1am. Also was concerned about support reps being able to access any customer's data simply by pressing 'bypass' on the security question promt page. I couldn't transfer internally until a year later as well. Would ping your manager each time you apply as well. Have to delete your emails constantly due to only having 1gb email space. Assessment was similar to the one I took for CIA. Cognitive based assessment.

I even got ghosted after a interview for a manual labor job at Home Depot. I tried cold contacting executives at a few companies. Got meeting with SVP at Dell, Cisco etc. was fruitless though. Spoofed number to bypass contact whitelist etc.

I welcome any and all advice that any of y'all could offer. Even if it's brutally candid. I need a job with decent health/dental insurance. Medicaid is useless. I might be homeless soon. I'm scared, and I don't know what to do. I'm afraid that I'll end up like Bill Landreth.

e: dude@member.fsf.org will reply with a different email address.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#2

Post by elmerfud » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 7:45 PM UTC

You leave out a lot about yourself that would make you unhireable. From what you've written it sounds like you could form a decent resume for an entry level position. The biggest red flag I see is that it doesn't sound like you completed anything and you don't have any follow through / sticktuitiveness.

Life happens and reasons happen but you didn't complete college, you complain about your entry level position at amazon but I see nothing that warrants a greater position than that. Obviously this may not be everything about you so it's difficult to judge.

I have no degree, but worked hard, stuck to jobs for 2-3 years before moving and developed a track record that hiring managers like to see. That means working for $15/hr in a position that you feel is beneath you. The thing that position provides you valuable experience and showing you can stick with things. Companies that hire you put forth a significant investment that takes roughly a year to pay off. Employees don't always realize that. If you look like you won't stick around they won't hire you.

One of the most important thing, especially as a junior is to be likable and present your suggestions in a likable way. Also it's key to know when no one wants to hear your suggestions. Sometimes your perspective may be a new thing that was never thought of or it could be one sided, the business knows it and had accepted the risk but it's not within your knowledge scope to know that.

I do technical interviews for the company I work for. If you're not likable to me, you're probably not getting hired. If I get the impression that every interaction will be a dick measuring contest because you come off as a smarty pants, I'm not recommend hiring. Someone who's knowledgeable and humble is going to get my recommendation. If you're good, and know how to communicate well you'll naturally rise to lead a team because they'll look to you for answers or ideas and everyone will notice.

It really sounds like you need to "pay your dues" by showing that you can stick to something. That's either complete college and get a degree or work entry level for 2 years and move up or out to the next position.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#3

Post by kubanczyk » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 7:59 PM UTC

Chances are you somehow act really creepy, which you do not see yourself. Ask a friend for a mock interview. Record it and watch later.

Don't have a friend? Hire someone. A friend cannot do mock interviews? Hand them a list of 10 questions that you remember from all those previous attempts and tell them to read it in solemn voice.

Nowadays the interviews are remote. Let a friend observe your interview and then ask their opinion. (I think recording these might be likely illegal? idk)

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#4

Post by giantg2 » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 8:18 PM UTC

Maybe check your criminal record. My wife was getting denied from every application. She later found out there was an incorrect conviction on her record and had to get it expunged.

Also, you seem to be listing big name tech companies and startups. Have you tried looking at non-tech companies? Sometimes the medium to small non-tech companies are more forgiving about not having a degree.

I'm not sure where you are located, but maybe look at jobs in other regions. Sometimes you can take a lower paying job in a cheaper region (with less competition) and do well.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#5

Post by codegeek » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 8:29 PM UTC

Need more details to give you a more accurate feedback. How long you have been working/in the industry in general ? It seems like you have done a few things over the years but don't really seem to have stuck to something that made you a specialist or someone worth hiring. Being brutal here but making assumptions. Do you quit a lot ? Do you have any criminal records that you are not aware of ? Are you too opinionated or argumentative in interviews even before understanding more about the team/product/company etc ? Are you that person who "knows everything" ? Lot of factors could be causing you to lose out.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#6

Post by snakedoctor » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 10:07 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #4

Maybe check your criminal record. My wife was getting denied from every application. She later found out there was an incorrect conviction on her record and had to get it expunged. Also, you seem to be listing big name tech companies and startups. Have you tried looking at non-tech companies? Sometimes the medium to small non-tech companies are more forgiving about not having a degree. I'm not sure where you are loca…

I'm not sure how to check my criminal record. Last background check by Amazon was clear. I've never even got ticked for jay walking. I tried googling my name and nothing came up. Pretty sure I have to pay for a company like ADP to do a background check on me. I think background checks usually happend post offer.

I've tried applying to some smaller companies who might be willing to take a risk on me. Haven't had any better luck with those. I live in the south, there aren't a lot of tech companies local to me. Just oil/gas companies.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#7

Post by snakedoctor » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 10:12 PM UTC

codegeek wrote: post #5

Need more details to give you a more accurate feedback. How long you have been working/in the industry in general ? It seems like you have done a few things over the years but don't really seem to have stuck to something that made you a specialist or someone worth hiring. Being brutal here but making assumptions. Do you quit a lot ? Do you have any criminal records that you are not aware of ? Are you too opinionated…

I've quit a lot. I haven't lasted anywhere longer than 2 months. I contribute a lot and then quit after I feel like I'm not getting appropriate compensation. Though I certainly agree that I need to stick with a job. I think ageism, and other biases are in place though. More years of experience I get the less disdained I will be I think.

I don't think I'm a know it all. I'm only in my early 20s. I definitely have a lot to learn, and I'm receptive to new stuff.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#8

Post by snakedoctor » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 10:14 PM UTC

kubanczyk wrote: post #3

Chances are you somehow act really creepy, which you do not see yourself. Ask a friend for a mock interview. Record it and watch later. Don't have a friend? Hire someone. A friend cannot do mock interviews? Hand them a list of 10 questions that you remember from all those previous attempts and tell them to read it in solemn voice. Nowadays the interviews are remote. Let a friend observe your interview and then ask th…

Well I was homeschooled since the 6th grade. So, I can understand how I can be weird/socially inept. I think that I'm more demure than creepy/werid imo.

I did a mock interview with a friend a while back. But good suggestions for sure.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#9

Post by snakedoctor » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 10:19 PM UTC

elmerfud wrote: post #2

You leave out a lot about yourself that would make you unhireable. From what you've written it sounds like you could form a decent resume for an entry level position. The biggest red flag I see is that it doesn't sound like you completed anything and you don't have any follow through / sticktuitiveness. Life happens and reasons happen but you didn't complete college, you complain about your entry level position at am…

Yeah, I think hiring managers think that I'm a quitter. I definitely think that I was whining too much about the Amazon role. Beggers can't be choosers. However, the no health insurance thing rubbed me the wrong way. I felt like it was a dead end job. I wish that I would've stayed with it though. I probably would've been promoted by now. I need to stay with a job and rack up some years of experience for sure.

Like I mentioned in other comments. I think HM's see me as a quitter. Also other baises like ageism etc. I think are apart of the issue. I felt like that I should've got promoted after reporting those issues, especially since I found them within my frist two weeks. I think that I come off as demure. I take a long time to answer sometimes. Due to my sutter, and southern drawl etc. But I try to listen, and pay attention to detail. Learn when to shut up, and when input/insight is wanted etc.

Sometimes when I do receive rejection feedback it's mostly "overqualifed", "not a good fit", and "not enough experience". I received a rejection from state farm today stating that I'm not a good fit. Even though I meet the qualifcations.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#10

Post by tcbasche » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 10:38 PM UTC

snakedoctor wrote: post #7

codegeek wrote: post #5

Need more details to give you a more accurate feedback. How long you have been working/in the industry in general ? It seems like you have done a few things over the years but don't really seem to have stuck to something that made you a specialist or someone worth hiring. Being brutal here but making assumptions. Do you quit a lot ? Do you have any criminal records that you are not aware of ? Are you too opinionated…

I've quit a lot. I haven't lasted anywhere longer than 2 months. I contribute a lot and then quit after I feel like I'm not getting appropriate compensation. Though I certainly agree that I need to stick with a job. I think ageism, and other biases are in place though. More years of experience I get the less disdained I will be I think. I don't think I'm a know it all. I'm only in my early 20s. I definitely have a lo…

> I think ageism, and other biases are in place though. > I'm only in my early 20s

Do you mean ... ageism against young people? I think from what it sounds like your expectation of compensation might be a little inflated based on your experience. Straight out of university I took a junior grad job that paid peanuts, but stuck with it for about 2 years and that was a solid basis to move somewhere that was a much better work environment and paid better.

I think as another poster may have said, you probably just need to stick it out with something for a couple of years to get that solid basis. As you say, if you're in your early twenties you have plenty of time and it's just the start of your career!