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Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress

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Re: Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress

#221

Post by giantg2 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #108
giantg2 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the insider trading laws don't require motive - just that they had private information or used their position of influence and that they benefited from a related trade. The rules for executives at companies usually requires them to file any trade plans related to their company stock prior to actually making the trade, which would at least prevent the short term plays like the Pelosi example. Even tech people…

Stupid insider trading, where someone gets a tip and then trades on it, is well enforced. It's easy to catch ex post facto and the people doing it are generally of the mind that everyone is insider trading and so they're unlikely to get caught. The problem is in the grey areas. Take the Pelosi example. The material nonpublic information was her personal policy position. Assuming she acted purely venally, are your own…

"personal policy position"

Once she announces it in the media, wouldn't it be a professional policy opinion? CEOs are similar. They can believe what they want, but what they say to the media can be punished (like Elon was). The real sticking point is how is she of one opinion then flip to the complete opposite the next day without giving a reason. If they have to report their intended trades then it could avoid this short term play.

Spouses and household members are held to the same restrictions as the regulated individual, regardless of the conversation or not. The only reason it's hard to prove is because they are in a position of power. The SEC would jump on any normal people doing the same thing.

Re: Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress

#222

Post by hpkuarg »

sneak wrote: post #174
skohan wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this is so cynical. Not to be naive, but if we can't at least start from the framework that the government should serve primarily the interests of the people and be outraged when it doesn't, then the American project is pretty much over

I'm not sure that has ever been true, or ever been the goal. The American government does serve the interests of the American people: the American people who own the bulk of the land and the largest companies. George Washington was the largest landowner in the colonies when the revolution started.

But Washington also shocked the ruling elites of the world by stepping down when he did. Clearly, he was cut of a different cloth than other largest landowners in their respective countries.

Re: Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress

#223

Post by frockington1 »

akudha wrote: post #153
sakopov wrote: post #15

> For example, Pelosi in Dec 22 was against more stimulus. Her husband buys deep ITM TSLA and AAPL calls that day. December 23rd, she is suddenly for stimulus again, with those same companies ralling 5%, giving her an instant +30 return. > Congressman Gottheimer is absolutely an incredible options trader. He’s been selling calls at peaks on $MSFT all 2021, & seemingly buying back the contracts on dips. This in blocks…

Isn't Pelosi worth like 100 million or something? How much money is enough for these people? :( How quickly are these trades made public? Maybe we should just copy the congress people's trades and make some profit ourselves :P

Clearance time varies but can take months. They've already collected profits by the time they are disclosed

Re: Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress

#224

Post by m463 »

psychlops wrote: post #151
wpietri wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever the behind-the-scenes truth, I think the appearance of conflicting interests is a problem regardless. For a lot of elected offices and high public service positions, I think their wealth should be put into a blind trust, one constrained by law to buy broad, boring things like index funds. That would surely be a problem for some individuals. But I don't think it's a systemic problem. We only need to find 0.00…

Just require them to announce their trades publicly 24 hours in advance. And let them manage their own finances. All these shenanigan's would disappear.

If I was a foreign government, I would just monitor these announcements and impoverish the US politicians.

Re: Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress

#225

Post by kennywinker »

Tenoke wrote: post #142
jliptzin wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your hypothesis assumes that all elected officials must engage in some form of bribery or pay for play. In an ideal world we’d find leaders who put the interests of the country ahead of their finances.

Or alternatively we can just pay them a lot more since they'll make money anyway, disallow them from earning money in other ways and at least have their profits have no additional negative effects. Not that I expect people would be comfortable paying politicians more (see how many complain about e.g. CEO pay) so I guess we are stuck with incentives for corruption instead.

I don't think we need to PAY them more to eliminate corruption - I think we need to change how campaigns are financed. Needing to raise millions every few years to keep your job makes you beholding to whoever has the money

Re: Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress

#226

Post by giantg2 »

reedjosh wrote: post #140
giantg2 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because it's the only war they even have a chance at winning because people in power will at least use them as pawns in their shared interests. They realize they lost the other war long ago and are subjects, not citizens in regards to holding the system itself accountable. Or are in blissful ignorance because it hasn't screwed them... yet.

> They realize they lost the other war long ago No, I vote ignorance. Most people don't even realize the current global political landscape is a battle of systems (E.g. Rules Based and China's Belt and Road Initiative). The idea that we're pawns doesn't cross most people's minds. Though I'd agree it may be willful ignorance as the truth not only hurts but is scary.

"The idea that we're pawns doesn't cross most people's minds."

Maybe. The fact that two of us here are even discussing it is something. I know quite a few people who feel this way. But it does usually take at least the witnessing of a blatant violation.

Re: Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress

#227

Post by finexplained »

de6u99er wrote: post #180
finexplained wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the financial industry we have restrictions not only on our own trading accounts, but on any account that we might have reasonable influence over. In my particular case, this means both my brokerage accounts and any of those belonging to a spouse. This is a requirement by our compliance departments to follow SEC regulations regarding insider trading. I don't see why similar rules would not be applied in this setti…

Sure, but ultimately it's only a crime if they get caught. And even then it seems to me that they can get away with it too easily. How about electing honest people, instead of constantly voting for the establishement (w. a few exceptions).

I'm obviously for electing honest people.

It's probably (I don't work at the SEC) true that it's still difficult to catch all perpetrators. The SEC has limited resources and they probably have a way of prioritizing cases that they think have sufficient evidence. No system is perfect, but from my perspective the SEC is a respected organization whose authority is treated seriously. I have frequently been told that I will face serious jail time if I engage in insider trading and am later caught.

Re: Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress

#228

Post by gowld »

m463 wrote: post #224
psychlops wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just require them to announce their trades publicly 24 hours in advance. And let them manage their own finances. All these shenanigan's would disappear.

If I was a foreign government, I would just monitor these announcements and impoverish the US politicians.

Good. That will discourage them from manipulating the market.

No need for foreign government -- the whole world can do it.

Re: Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress

#229

Post by eloff »

akudha wrote: post #153
sakopov wrote: post #15

> For example, Pelosi in Dec 22 was against more stimulus. Her husband buys deep ITM TSLA and AAPL calls that day. December 23rd, she is suddenly for stimulus again, with those same companies ralling 5%, giving her an instant +30 return. > Congressman Gottheimer is absolutely an incredible options trader. He’s been selling calls at peaks on $MSFT all 2021, & seemingly buying back the contracts on dips. This in blocks…

Isn't Pelosi worth like 100 million or something? How much money is enough for these people? :( How quickly are these trades made public? Maybe we should just copy the congress people's trades and make some profit ourselves :P

> How much money is enough for these people? :(

What kind of attitude is that? If you have savings, one seeks a return on said savings by investing them. That's perfectly normal and rational behavior at all wealth levels.

Re: Unusual Stock Trading by Whales in US Congress

#230

Post by mdoms »

sakopov wrote: post #15

> For example, Pelosi in Dec 22 was against more stimulus. Her husband buys deep ITM TSLA and AAPL calls that day. December 23rd, she is suddenly for stimulus again, with those same companies ralling 5%, giving her an instant +30 return. > Congressman Gottheimer is absolutely an incredible options trader. He’s been selling calls at peaks on $MSFT all 2021, & seemingly buying back the contracts on dips. This in blocks…

> This is fucking unreal.

It's USA. Corruption is the norm.

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