A friend of mine from India and I were walking into a Barnes and Noble store. He stops outside the door points to the "for sale book cart" that sits outside the store and tells me if this store was in India, not only the books will be gone but the cart too. The stunning thing he tells me is its not the poor who steal but the customers who would come to the store to buy.
Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refunded or exchanged
211–220 of 328 posts
Re: Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refunded or exchanged
#212In my experience Americans sort of take for granted the breadth and depth of consumer protection you enjoy. I'd wager that in an insignificant portion of countries Apple expanded to, they have had to significantly cut back on refunds/warrantees they offer to combat fraud and abuse.
> In my experience Americans sort of take for granted the breadth and depth of consumer protection you enjoy. As a european, it's amusing to hear you say that as the majority of European countries have far, far more stringent consumer-protection regs than the US, such as mandatory 2 year warranties, distance-selling laws, legal rights to a refund or replacement, and so on. Apple's 90 day warranty is a joke when you c…
> when you can buy the same product, for almost the same price after factoring-in VAT
Uh, not at all.
Converted to USD and without tax below. Apple products are 11-16% more expensive in Europe
iPhone 12: US price $699 - Europe price without VAT $807
iPhone 12 Pro Max: US price $1099 - Europe price without VAT $1256
iPad Air: US price $599 - Europe price without VAT $667
Macbook Air: US price $999 - Europe price without VAT $1126
Re: Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refunded or exchanged
#213In my experience Americans sort of take for granted the breadth and depth of consumer protection you enjoy. I'd wager that in an insignificant portion of countries Apple expanded to, they have had to significantly cut back on refunds/warrantees they offer to combat fraud and abuse.
> In my experience Americans sort of take for granted the breadth and depth of consumer protection you enjoy. As a european, it's amusing to hear you say that as the majority of European countries have far, far more stringent consumer-protection regs than the US, such as mandatory 2 year warranties, distance-selling laws, legal rights to a refund or replacement, and so on. Apple's 90 day warranty is a joke when you c…
My experience in Europe was that the result of those laws is businesses that operate within the letter of the law, whereas in the US they often operate more generously.
For example Apple in the US let me return a first gen 12.9” iPad Pro after about 4 months and exchange it for the 9.7” version the week it came out.
I would have expected a flat out no from retailers in Europe.
Re: Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refunded or exchanged
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because of your stupid statement about it being ingrained in the culture. It's more like a combination of unemployment, English know-how, ineffective/overworked police because of underfunding, the existence of this attack vector and a little tech knowledge to exploit it.
The Philippines meets all of these criteria that you enumerated, why don't they pump out scammers like India?
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Re: Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refunded or exchanged
#215Apple had a lot of trouble with the Indian market back the early 2010s. They had to pull AppleCare+ out of the country because people were abusing it a lot. [†] Same goes for the country's biggest online retailers, both Amazon and Flipkart also switched to a replacement-only policy in India. "Most analysts agree that many many buyers were abusing the company's refund policy. With many buying latest smartphones, and r…
I disagree with categorizing this as abuse. The company was offering a refund policy. The customers were using it. My friend Kevin used to test out different GPUs when he was writing a game engine. He'd buy one, install it on his computer, run the engine, then return it a few days later. They often had a 10% restocking fee. Was he abusing policy? It's the same sort of logic banks use to justify "identity theft." Ah y…
This is definitely abuse. The policy is there does not mean customer can use it in whatever way you like. The company honor the policy also does not mean the consumer is not abusing the policy.
Remember Costco permanently blocked some consumers due to abusing the return policy? Costco honors the policy, but those consumers were still considered as abusing the policy.
Re: Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refunded or exchanged
#216Apple had a lot of trouble with the Indian market back the early 2010s. They had to pull AppleCare+ out of the country because people were abusing it a lot. [†] Same goes for the country's biggest online retailers, both Amazon and Flipkart also switched to a replacement-only policy in India. "Most analysts agree that many many buyers were abusing the company's refund policy. With many buying latest smartphones, and r…
How is this scamming or abuse? There is a return window that people are taking advantage of whose purpose it to let unsure people decide whether they want the device or not. People are using this promise at face value and then being called abusers and scammers
Yeah I'm having understanding how this is a scam too. Are they rebuying the same phone a week later? If not, they are using the system as intended.
Re: Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refunded or exchanged
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
People are probably more embarrassed to ask for their money back on something they have partially or entirely eaten. I can barely muster up the courage to tell my waiter that my dinner order wasn't quite right but I have zero problem with buying a couple different versions of a product and returning the ones I don't like.
That's interesting - I hate wasting food, I have never complained about my order (and not planning too, unless the food is spoiled I guess). If I don't like the food, I'll just never order again from the same place. I would definitely appreciate a company that offers money refund on food "no questions asked" even if I was never going to use it - it shows respect.
In the US, Aldi, and I think some other grocery stores do this.
Re: Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refunded or exchanged
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
I disagree with categorizing this as abuse. The company was offering a refund policy. The customers were using it. My friend Kevin used to test out different GPUs when he was writing a game engine. He'd buy one, install it on his computer, run the engine, then return it a few days later. They often had a 10% restocking fee. Was he abusing policy? It's the same sort of logic banks use to justify "identity theft." Ah y…
This is definitely abuse. The policy is there does not mean customer can use it in whatever way you like. The company honor the policy also does not mean the consumer is not abusing the policy. Remember Costco permanently blocked some consumers due to abusing the return policy? Costco honors the policy, but those consumers were still considered as abusing the policy.
Exactly. That's Costco's right, and it's an example of the system working as intended.
Let me ask you this. Do you agree with illegal copyright infringement being classified as "piracy"? My issue here is the terminology. It's deceptive to classify this behavior as "abuse," as if someone was kicking a puppy.
It's an asshole thing to do, but it's not abuse. No one is doing anything illegal, and everyone is free to feel however they wish about their morals.
Re: Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refunded or exchanged
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
> people were abusing it a lot Why frame it so negatively? You could as well say "people saw that Apple was ripe for disruption".
That may well be the most hacker news / silicon valley comment ever... I don't even want to know if it's /s or not! :)
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Re: Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refunded or exchanged
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because of your stupid statement about it being ingrained in the culture. It's more like a combination of unemployment, English know-how, ineffective/overworked police because of underfunding, the existence of this attack vector and a little tech knowledge to exploit it.
The Philippines meets all of these criteria that you enumerated, why don't they pump out scammers like India?
You're on HN and it's supposed to have somewhat better discourse, don't bring the quality of this site down. Next time try googling the population (!), per capita income, rates of English profiency and technical know-how, international phone calling prices, unemployment rates of the two countries... and apply some basic statistics / common sense. There are just some of the factors, there are probably more.