The ecological disaster that is Bitcoin • Hacker News Board

Re: The ecological disaster that is Bitcoin

#41

Post by Glench » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 4:59 PM UTC

nanna wrote: post #39

Glench wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chia (by bittorrent inventor Bram Cohen) uses Proof of Space/Time and is specifically billed as a scalable, energy-efficient alternative with the same Nakamoto guarantees as Bitcoin. Their mainnet has been out for a month and the network is growing like 35% week over week. https://chia.net/

Interesting, and its contract language is LISP-like! https://chialisp.com/

yeah! And possibly more importantly, after looking at Solidity contracts and seeing how much they were hacked, they severely limited the stateful side effects of ChiaLISP transactions. Apparently their thinking was so that these programs could be better audited by enterprise users that way, making Chia a more attractive blockchain to target.

Re: The ecological disaster that is Bitcoin

#42

Post by nanna » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 5:30 PM UTC

Glench wrote: post #41

nanna wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, and its contract language is LISP-like! https://chialisp.com/

yeah! And possibly more importantly, after looking at Solidity contracts and seeing how much they were hacked, they severely limited the stateful side effects of ChiaLISP transactions. Apparently their thinking was so that these programs could be better audited by enterprise users that way, making Chia a more attractive blockchain to target.

Hold on a second. Was Chia named after you?

Re: The ecological disaster that is Bitcoin

#43

Post by Glench » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

nanna wrote: post #42

Glench wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah! And possibly more importantly, after looking at Solidity contracts and seeing how much they were hacked, they severely limited the stateful side effects of ChiaLISP transactions. Apparently their thinking was so that these programs could be better audited by enterprise users that way, making Chia a more attractive blockchain to target.

Hold on a second. Was Chia named after you?

Haha no, just a fun coincidence.

Re: The ecological disaster that is Bitcoin

#44

Post by AnimalMuppet » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 5:42 PM UTC

politician wrote: post #36

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, if we were not doing Bitcoin, we could use that nuclear power for something else , like replacing coal plants...

We have so much uranium that we can do Bitcoin AND everything else.

We have the uranium. Do we have the nuclear plants? No? Not yet? Then today, we can't burn all that electricity mining Bitcoin without it requiring burning more coal.

Re: The ecological disaster that is Bitcoin

#45

Post by creepto » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 6:24 PM UTC

agumonkey wrote: post #16

superkuh wrote: post #5

Everyone competing to find hashes that start with a large number of zeros to secure a currency is significantly less of an ecological disaster than maintaining a standing army (or military alliances with someone who does) like fiat currencies use.

Crypto millionaires are really not smart

They're the dumbest of money.

Just wait for the next crash, it's gonna be rough for the ones who don't know how to sell. (Which is the majority.)

Re: The ecological disaster that is Bitcoin

#46

Post by creepto » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 6:25 PM UTC

randomhodler84 wrote: post #10

snypher wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>doesn’t matter how much energy is used For machines that turn coal into waste heat for no benefit, I think it does.

It’s cool that you think there is no benefit. Bitcoin is an optional system that nobody is forced to use. I find a very large benefit and so do millions of others. Enjoy watching the depreciating fiat!

Luckily Bitcoin cannot depreciate.

If times get rough Bitfinex can just print a few billion USDT.

Re: The ecological disaster that is Bitcoin

#47

Post by politician » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 8:39 PM UTC

wmf wrote: post #37

politician wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have so much uranium that we can do Bitcoin AND everything else.

Is that actually happening? Is it on track to happen?

The same people who lament the energy usage of PoW have also been stirring up FUD against nuclear. I said that the outrage about Bitcoin is a proxy for lamenting the lack of clean energy while also ignoring or resisting our current, proven ability to generate clean energy.

Are you sealioning?

Re: The ecological disaster that is Bitcoin

#48

Post by politician » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 8:44 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #44

politician wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have so much uranium that we can do Bitcoin AND everything else.

We have the uranium. Do we have the nuclear plants? No? Not yet? Then today , we can't burn all that electricity mining Bitcoin without it requiring burning more coal.

We don't exclusively burn coal to secure bitcoin and China uses a combination of power generation technologies to power its electrical grid. To imply that it's all coal is just wrong.

Yes, shut down the coal plants today, but you'll be cancelling more than Bitcoin PoW. So what are you really mad about? Bitcoin or Coal?

For goodness sakes, if these activists win at cancelling Bitcoin, all they've accomplished is extending the lifetime of coal-fired power generation. Yay?

Re: The ecological disaster that is Bitcoin

#49

Post by AnimalMuppet » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 9:29 PM UTC

politician wrote: post #48

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have the uranium. Do we have the nuclear plants? No? Not yet? Then today , we can't burn all that electricity mining Bitcoin without it requiring burning more coal.

We don't exclusively burn coal to secure bitcoin and China uses a combination of power generation technologies to power its electrical grid. To imply that it's all coal is just wrong. Yes, shut down the coal plants today , but you'll be cancelling more than Bitcoin PoW. So what are you really mad about? Bitcoin or Coal? For goodness sakes, if these activists win at cancelling Bitcoin, all they've accomplished is exte…

I am not saying to shut down coal plants today, and I deny you the right to put words in my mouth.

What I am doing is pushing back on your original argument, which was that China has nuclear plants and we have lots of uranium, so it's fine to waste enormous amounts of energy mining Bitcoin.

My position is this: Today we have nuclear plants and coal plants, and we waste energy mining Bitcoin. It is a strictly better world where we have the same number of nuclear plants and fewer coal plants, and use the exact same amount of energy minus the amount that we spend on Bitcoin.

I strongly suspect that the incremental energy load of mining Bitcoin is coming from coal plants, not nuclear plants. (If anyone has hard data, I would welcome it.) If my suspicion is correct, then claiming that China has nuclear plants is irrelevant, since they aren't producing the electricity that's being spent mining Bitcoin.

Re: The ecological disaster that is Bitcoin

#50

Post by viklove » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 9:52 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #49

politician wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't exclusively burn coal to secure bitcoin and China uses a combination of power generation technologies to power its electrical grid. To imply that it's all coal is just wrong. Yes, shut down the coal plants today , but you'll be cancelling more than Bitcoin PoW. So what are you really mad about? Bitcoin or Coal? For goodness sakes, if these activists win at cancelling Bitcoin, all they've accomplished is exte…

I am not saying to shut down coal plants today, and I deny you the right to put words in my mouth. What I am doing is pushing back on your original argument, which was that China has nuclear plants and we have lots of uranium, so it's fine to waste enormous amounts of energy mining Bitcoin. My position is this: Today we have nuclear plants and coal plants, and we waste energy mining Bitcoin. It is a strictly better w…

I think we should shut down Netflix because it is a huge waste of energy that could be better repurposed elsewhere. Who are you to say Netflix is more useful than Bitcoin?