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Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refunded or exchanged

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Re: Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refunded or exchanged

#131
post #75
post #31

Apple had a lot of trouble with the Indian market back the early 2010s. They had to pull AppleCare+ out of the country because people were abusing it a lot. [†] Same goes for the country's biggest online retailers, both Amazon and Flipkart also switched to a replacement-only policy in India. "Most analysts agree that many many buyers were abusing the company's refund policy. With many buying latest smartphones, and r…

So what's the story behind the return abuse in India?

AppleCare+ covered two incidents of Theft, Loss and accidents.

Third party resellers essentially activated an iphone and marked it as lost. Then, after getting a new replacement iPhone from Apple, they would go on and sell it to customers.

Nowadays, you can only get AppleCare (not the plus) in India which does not cover theft or accidental damage.

Re: Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refunded or exchanged

#132
post #14

So I bought a Macbook Air with M1 that I used for 3 months and noticed the right speaker cracking issue (apparently this is widespread on forums) and instead of going through the headache of repair service I ended up just tossing it online and buy a new one for <7500Rs in losses which I thought was a good deal. The new one has the same problem (yes I tried everything from restore to different audio but its not subtle…

Edit: apologies, I misread the comment and the “3 months” bit. Apparently (TIL) India has very weak consumer protection laws. I still think you should take up Apple’s offer to have it repaired/replaced. I guess that’s your only recourse.

I don’t think any country has laws mandating that people are allowed to return products after owning them for 3 months.

It depends on the circumstances, but in the UK and most of Europe, consumer rights are much stronger than in some other parts of the world.

Here in the UK, the basic rule is that the vendor who sold a product to a private individual is on the hook for anything that goes wrong -- that is, they can't just pass the buck to a manufacturer under warranty or some other fall guy, they have to deal with the problem or be held responsible. Whether the vendor can in turn recover any losses from the manufacturer or reseller who supplied them is then that vendor's problem, not the end customer's.

Usually if a product is defective, the next step will be to repair, replace or refund. The legal position tends to be based on both sides being reasonable. For example, if you have a product that fails earlier than you might reasonably expect but still after a couple of years of use, you might get a refund for part of the original purchase price but you probably wouldn't be entitled to all of it. On the other hand, if a product fails in the first few months and the vendor can't repair or replace it, you're probably entitled to a full refund and there is a presumption that the product was defective unless the vendor can prove otherwise. In some cases, rights to a partial refund might last as long as 6 years, if the product purchased might reasonably be expected to last that long but that one didn't.

Several other shenanigans that vendors try to pull elsewhere also don't hold up here. You can't rely on dubious arbitration terms in sale contracts to override statutory consumer rights. A vendor also must not mislead consumers over their rights, for example putting up a sign saying "no refunds" when the buyer might have a legal right to a refund for a defective product. In fact, it's actually illegal for merchants to mislead in that kind of way, which is why you'll see often notices up at the tills that say something like "your statutory rights are not affected" to make it clear that they're not trying to illegally misrepresent anything about those rights.

This is all in addition to any more generous policy a merchant might voluntarily offer or any warranty a manufacturer might offer on its products regardless of where someone buys them.

Re: Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refunded or exchanged

#133
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my friends works at Costco. He says that before the holidays they sell a lot of furniture and after the holidays they see a lot of furniture returns.

Is the implication that people are buying extra furniture for having family or other guests over, with the intent of returning it after the guests leave?

I guess so? I'm not sure if the intent is there or if they realize that the holidays cost too much and need to return some.

Re: Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refunded or exchanged

#134
post #6

Why is this the case? Is there some societal expectation? I know that eg: american grocery stores are much more accepting of returns for any reason vs european ones in general.

I think good return policies is good for business IF the business is operating in a society that generally behaves ethically on that matter. If the majority of returns are good faith, just swallow them and keep everything moving smoothly with happy customers. If you have a critical mass of customers who disregard right vs. wrong and just see a mark to be exploited, you're pretty much forced to behave adversarially, a…

This is right on the money.

I worked at a startup catering to Indian consumers. It was a typical transactional product coupled with offers. The time and energy we spent on fighting different kinds of abuse was outright insane. The fraudsters would come up with a new trick each week to abuse offers. No matter what check we placed (based on e-mail, phone number, IP etc., etc.,) they would beat it.

Based on my experience I can think of a few contributing factors.

1. Indian population. Lot of businesses underestimate this. They are used to reason in terms of %. But when you have a population of 1300 the % could still be within a threshold but absolute number would be larger than entire nations.

2. Outright incompetent cyber policing. The Indian consumers getting access to cheaper smartphone and internet exploded in the 2nd half of last decade. Naturally the country's police have just been unable to scale up to deal with new age crimes.

3. Poverty. It's super lucrative for young poor people to take advantage of arbitrage opportunities and abuse goodwill policies. The return policy is a good example. E-commerce companies in India are riddled with fraudulent return of goods. The modus operandi is simple enough. Order a smart phone, return a faulty/old one of the same model, sell the new one. Profit.

4. Extreme levels of corruption and vast geography. There are some well known cybercrime hotspot PIN codes but chasing the fraudsters is mostly futile. The police are mostly lethargic and more often than not are happy to work with the criminals to collect a weekly payment. It's more lucrative that way, why kill the golden goose?

5. Cheap internet, cheaper SIM connection. The country is awash with cheap bandwidth and SIM connection. To an extent you'll find new SIM packets lying on the sidewalk. This makes it extremely hard to tackle online frauds.

Re: Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refunded or exchanged

#135
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my friends works at Costco. He says that before the holidays they sell a lot of furniture and after the holidays they see a lot of furniture returns.

Is the implication that people are buying extra furniture for having family or other guests over, with the intent of returning it after the guests leave?

them buying fancier furniture to impress their guests would be my guess but yours is very likely as well

Re: Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refunded or exchanged

#136
Can anyone tell me if this is due to cultural differences where abusing a refund policy is common place and accepted, so having something that is generally intended as a "good faith" policy simply doesn't work?

Or is this that there are small groups of very organized individuals abusing it and ruining it for the rest of the country?

Re: Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refunded or exchanged

#137
post #31

Apple had a lot of trouble with the Indian market back the early 2010s. They had to pull AppleCare+ out of the country because people were abusing it a lot. [†] Same goes for the country's biggest online retailers, both Amazon and Flipkart also switched to a replacement-only policy in India. "Most analysts agree that many many buyers were abusing the company's refund policy. With many buying latest smartphones, and r…

20 years ago in the US I had friends in college that would shop for clearance items at places like Office Depot and return them to Walmart for full price (no receipt needed). In one situation there was like a $20 ancient keyboard that Walmart still had in their system for ~$100.

Re: Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refunded or exchanged

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my experience Americans sort of take for granted the breadth and depth of consumer protection you enjoy. As a european, it's amusing to hear you say that as the majority of European countries have far, far more stringent consumer-protection regs than the US, such as mandatory 2 year warranties, distance-selling laws, legal rights to a refund or replacement, and so on. Apple's 90 day warranty is a joke when you c…

And everywhere in EU sellers have to accept a return within 14 days for any online purchases, for any reason. And no, they can't charge a restocking fee. You can only be asked to pay for the postage back. And in general, the responsibility for the goods is always with the seller first, manufacturer second. If your laptop breaks and the seller says "oh the manufacturer declined warranty" then sorry, tough luck, it's t…

> within 14 days for any online purchases

Almost. It does not apply to custom-made products. Apple resellers consider BTO models to be custom-made and thus not eligible for this protection. But at least they warn you upfront.

Re: Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refunded or exchanged

#139
post #43

So I bought a Macbook Air with M1 that I used for 3 months and noticed the right speaker cracking issue (apparently this is widespread on forums) and instead of going through the headache of repair service I ended up just tossing it online and buy a new one for <7500Rs in losses which I thought was a good deal. The new one has the same problem (yes I tried everything from restore to different audio but its not subtle…

Did you buy it via official reseller? Any reasonable country should have laws in place that will force the company to refund you for the defective goods. In that case Apple' policies shouldn't matter

AFAIK India doesn’t have refund policies for defective goods that are widely applicable.

What OP must clarify though is that apples authorised resellers in India do actually perform a good job of replacing defective goods under warranty, which makes getting extended care for apple products in India of paramount importance. Outside of warranty you are so screwed!

Re: Products purchased at Apple Store in India cannot be refunded or exchanged

#140
post #121

I was at the Pike Place Market Starbucks in Seattle and picked up a mug special to that shop for my (native Italian) wife. I took it home in DC and found it had a hairline fracture. No problem, I told her, and promptly called the Pike Place Market Starbucks and explained the situation. They immediately mailed me a new one at no cost and apologized. She remarked that this would NEVER have happened in Italy: no shop wo…

Games Workshop, the miniature manufacturer is like this. The few times I've had an issue with something from them -- mostly missing pieces -- they've shipped me a replacement entire kit, usually overnight at no cost to me.

It makes sense for them to want to keep their customers happy, considering how goddamn expensive those little bits of plastic are
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