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Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#221

Post by quchen »

albrewer wrote: post #194
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before anyone rushes to do this: Cultivating these mushrooms is not legal, even if buying the spores might be. Likewise, self-medicating severe depression with hone grown psychedelics is not a great idea. These studies use controlled administration in supervised environments often with therapy as part of the process. You cannot replicate that at home. Psychedelics also can’t be dosed continuously like traditional ant…

To add on to this, these mushrooms should not be taken by anyone with liver problems - I was specifically warned by my gastroenterologist that, behind alcohol and starchy foods, magic mushrooms will screw up your liver very quickly.

Did they mention why? Sounds like FUD to me, since the psilos I know of are mostly water, indigestible chitin, and trace amount of kidney-excreted psilocin/psilocybin.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#222

Post by zepto »

varispeed wrote: post #197

I think the people behind drug prohibition need reckoning. They have caused untold suffering, especially by preventing people from accessing medication they needed. There is no justification for drug prohibition to continue. If anyone thinks otherwise, then it only means they have not educated themselves enough about the topic, they profit from the current status quo or simply they take pleasure in causing suffering…

No justification for prohibition, but quite possibly justification for regulation.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#223

Post by BelmundoRegal »

LegitShady wrote: post #198
tzury wrote: post #162

I was not able to speak to my father, let alone staying in the same room were he was, for about 26 years (~18yr old till recently ~44yr). The background for this was my choice of leaving an ultra orthodox jewish community and going on my own. I recently tried that (after 3 years of hesitation) and the magic happened. It affected my structure of feelings in several ways indeed, but in the context of this one, I would…

I think people should be generally afraid of any substance that can I give long term personality changes with just a few doses, sometimes even with a doctor's help.

I calculate a 99.99% chance you have never tried any such substance and therefore know not what you're talking about. The "long term personality changes" are for the vast majority transformational in a positive way, as in doing away with pathological stuff forever.

I encourage you to take a moment to get acquainted with what is being done clinically ( which to be honest is not what I was referring to ) ;

Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics | Lex Fridman Podcast #145

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICj8p5jPd3Y

Matthew W. Johnson is a professor and psychedelics researcher at Johns Hopkins.

I could accept your statement with "afraid" switched for "prudent" but even then, it turns out Psilocybin is your friend.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#224

Post by zepto »

LegitShady wrote: post #198
tzury wrote: post #162

I was not able to speak to my father, let alone staying in the same room were he was, for about 26 years (~18yr old till recently ~44yr). The background for this was my choice of leaving an ultra orthodox jewish community and going on my own. I recently tried that (after 3 years of hesitation) and the magic happened. It affected my structure of feelings in several ways indeed, but in the context of this one, I would…

I think people should be generally afraid of any substance that can I give long term personality changes with just a few doses, sometimes even with a doctor's help.

Afraid? Pretty much everything we do affects us. I’d say choice of jobs and schools has had a giant effect on me, much of it not what I would choose.

Make a careful, informed decision. But there is no need to be ‘afraid’.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#225

Post by rincebrain »

varispeed wrote: post #203
say_it_as_it_is wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The definition of treatment resistant depression is one of the filters that narrows down the list. A subject must have tried at least two different antidepressants for a certain length of time and within the last few years, in addition to therapy. So, someone who has taken antidepressants for years doesn't automatically qualify.

This is crazy. It's like cart manufacturers lobbied government that anyone who want to buy a car would first have to use a horse and a cart and only be allowed to buy a car if the cart and a horse causes significant problem. Am I the only one seeing corruption here?

If your attempted argument is "X helps people who are not helped by other existing treatments", then limiting your selection criteria to those who have tried several existing treatments and not found success seems to follow logically.

(Though the study's construction seems to fail at that argument, since the claim is that all patients, both those given the psilocybin and those given the SSRI, improved markedly.)

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#226

Post by quchen »

goodpoint wrote: post #217
dannyw wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to change the message from "don't take drugs" to "if you choose to take drugs, take them responsibly". Start with low doses, don't mix (alcohol,benzo,opiates), and remember that unless taken therapeutically, drugs should be an occasional party thing and not an escapism for life. It's also totally fine to not do drugs. I'm going sober (except a beer or two) for an indefinite period of time, just because that's…

> drugs should be an occasional party thing Please don't! If all this research thought us anything, it's that powerful substances are emotional surgery. Not something to attempt in an unsafe environment.

On the contrary, parties can be very safe environments. Much like there are better and worse places to drink, there are better and worse places for taking other drugs. A lot of factors play into the setting. Music is very often a plus, feelings of freedom, being outside, good weather, like-minded people – relaxed open air festivals make for a good example.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#227

Post by david_allison »

fighterpilot wrote: post #117

> In a phase 2, double-blind , randomized, controlled trial It seems like you can't blind the participants in this case? It should be obvious if you're getting the treatment because psilocybin is a hallucinogen, unless they're giving such a small dose that it reliably doesn't cause any hallucinations? This is important because most (70-80%) of the effect of existing anti-depressants is known to be placebo, and there'…

> It seems like you can't blind the participants in this case? It should be obvious if you're getting the treatment because psilocybin is a hallucinogen, unless they're giving such a small dose that it reliably doesn't cause any hallucinations?

An active placebo can be used. For example: a high dose of methylphenidate and hallucinogen-naïve adults.[0]

[0] Griffiths, et al. (2006) https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/press_releases/2006/griffith...

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#228

Post by goodpoint »

mahathu wrote: post #86
ceilingcorner wrote: post #9

I don’t want to live in a world where the solution to depression (caused by governments, politicians, or general existence in the modern capitalist world) is a drug. Not a good idea. Instead, figure out why depression has increased so dramatically in the last ~century and address that.

> why depression has increased so dramatically in the last ~century and address that has it? Were our current guidelines to diagnose depressive episodes with around a century ago?

Ye, it has, and also many other forms of mental illness.

> Were our current guidelines to diagnose depressive episodes with around a century ago?

Certainly not, but researchers are very capable of looking at historical records and detect evidence to treated or untreated conditions.

Furthermore, people have been describing their own emotions and other people's behaviors since recorded history.

There's an army of psychologists, anthropologist, sociologists and geneticists out there studying the history of mental illness. Among many, prof. Sapolsky comes to mind.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#229

Post by SauciestGNU »

quchen wrote: post #221
albrewer wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add on to this, these mushrooms should not be taken by anyone with liver problems - I was specifically warned by my gastroenterologist that, behind alcohol and starchy foods, magic mushrooms will screw up your liver very quickly.

Did they mention why? Sounds like FUD to me, since the psilos I know of are mostly water, indigestible chitin, and trace amount of kidney-excreted psilocin/psilocybin.

I had heard warnings about damaging kidney function with regular high dosage use, but not from a medical professional.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#230

Post by pwr33 »

arcticbull wrote: post #36
simion314 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have zero experience with drugs, so I am wondering if there is a sugar/cigarette industry that put a lot of money into promoting it's products, then what will be different when drugs get legalized? Won't we repeat the history where companies make billions from this products, put them into ads to spread the use and addict people, suppress research into bad side effects etc,. Personally I think there are some good ap…

Sure, for weed maybe. But psychedelics are very different. They're really, genuinely not addictive -- probably because they're not "fun." In fact, they're exhausting. You may feel a lot better after, the experience may be fascinating, but you're in absolutely no hurry to do it again. The whole thing lasts a few hours, but literally feels like months, with numerous epochs along the way. It's not like the kind of hollo…

I did psychedelics for many years and nearly every day for well over a year. In total I have had at least 500-600 experiences with various psychedelics, especially mushrooms, LSD, 5-MeO-MiPT, 5-MeO-DMT, 2C-I and 2C-P.

I was addicted in some sense definitely, though apparently most people don't feel that way. I had to do tons of cocaine to stop my heaviest phase of psychedelic use and since then I have only used them occasionally over the years.

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