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Twilio blocked our account and with it hundreds of our customers [resolved]

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Re: Twilio blocked our account and with it hundreds of our customers [resolved]

#141
Long time twilio user and evangelist here ... as I have mentioned here and in interviews[1], etc., I built my own little mini-telco out of twiml bins and have attempted, over the past 4-5 years, to move all of my telephony into the (twilio) cloud.

I was encouraged when I attended Signal 2018[2] by twilio product and technical managers who intimated that such personal "utility" uses of twilio were favored by the CEO (Jeff Lawson) himself.

Everything you need to know about how this has turned out - and which direction the company is going - can be imparted with two points:

1) Twilio straight up refuses to put an email verb in Twiml. This sounds like a nerdy, nit-picky point from my own personal use-case (and it is) but it's the most dead-obvious thing in the world, is technically trivial, and would make so many use-cases a world easier than they are.

Instead of adding an email verb to twiml (so you could, for instance, cc: an email address with emergency SMS alerts, or perhaps cc: yourself a log of all received SMS) they chose to buy an entire email company. Now you can create these use-cases provided that you sign up a sendgrid account, and tie the two together with code hosted at a third party and blah blah blah.

The reason they did this is providing telco utility tools is not interesting. Customer engagement at scale (or whatever bullshit) is what is interesting. Managing high value interactions. Whatever.

2) Q1 of 2021 they crammed phone only 2FA down the throats of all account holders. You may say "you can also use authy" but, of course, the initial setup of authy requires a real mobile number[3] and you can't log into twilio to enable authy without providing a mobile number first.

So, if you're planning on moving your telephony into the cloud, you can't - you'll need to tie real phones and SIM cards to these accounts. Have multiple twilio accounts ? Congratulations - you can either be super sloppy and share your mobile SIM across all of them or you can buy three phones.

This is for your security. Total bullshit.

In reality, twilio has a massive spam/scam problem that is almost unsolvable. I don't envy them in this position. However, instead of solving this problem, they have decided to just throw sand in the gears and slow down the scammers by demanding that everyone prove a SIM identity. This doesn't bother most users because they aren't, ironically, trying to shed SIM cards by moving their telco infrastructure to twilio ... but it fucks my shit up immensely.

Which is what happens when providing telco utility services has no path-to-unicorn and you need to turn yourself into an "engagement platform" that "enables customer interaction" for "high value use-cases".

[1] https://console.dev/qa/rsync-john-kozubik/

[2] "peak twilio"

[3] Which is so ironic since, in almost all cases, twilio numbers are NOT mobile numbers and cannot be used for "proper" 2FA since they cannot receive SMS from short-codes. So twilio demands a telephony use-case that they, themselves, cannot satisfy.

Re: Twilio blocked our account and with it hundreds of our customers [resolved]

#142

I work for Twilio and forwarded it internally. If you are 6 years with the company, you probably have an AE assigned to your company or have been in touch with any other human being along the way? UPDATE: Your account should be active now.

"I work for Twilio and forwarded it internally."

For the love of christ will you please give us an 'email' verb in twiml ?

Or do you need sendgrid signups for some business metric and, therefore, this dead simple integration has to be avoided ?

Re: Twilio blocked our account and with it hundreds of our customers [resolved]

#143
Lesson learned: always have a number to call, always have the ability to get a hold of a flesh-and-blood human being. My company mandates this as a minimal requirement for all our SaaS providers.

With regards to having a mitigation strategy we take another tactic: what's the SaaS provider's mitigation strategy? How do they cope with data center loss, communications loss - what processes and procedures do they have in place? Any business-worthy SaaS provider has this information readily available. Any hemming or hawing is a sign of trouble.

Re: Twilio blocked our account and with it hundreds of our customers [resolved]

#144

Lesson learned: always have a number to call, always have the ability to get a hold of a flesh-and-blood human being. My company mandates this as a minimal requirement for all our SaaS providers. With regards to having a mitigation strategy we take another tactic: what's the SaaS provider's mitigation strategy? How do they cope with data center loss, communications loss - what processes and procedures do they have in…

[deleted]

Re: Twilio blocked our account and with it hundreds of our customers [resolved]

#145
We asked for a phone number transfer to another Twilio account, and the support rep took the wrong action by mistake.

He wiped our entire account, causing us to lose tens of thousands of recordings, logs etc. We were told sorry, no way to recover them - only the underlying phone numbers.

It's cheap, but I'd never trust them again.

Re: Twilio blocked our account and with it hundreds of our customers [resolved]

#146

I have the same on Sendgrid, owned by Twilo. One day they just cut us off with no explanation, kneecapping our product. I raised two tickets, neither of which were answered. The next day, it all started working again. I’ve always been a big advocate for using 3rd party SaaS, but with the level of customer service I’m seeing lately, I’m starting to recommend avoiding it where possible.

I think this should be regulated - companies often take massive amount of customers and while they are most of the time able to deliver the product, they have no capacity to service support queries. I think there should be an SLA guaranteed by law and for a company it should be illegal to take more customers if they are unable to provide SLA on support. This way we wouldn't have a situation where you contact a compan…

Or you could just, you know, buy from Saas'es that provide SLA's enforceable in your jurisdiction. Vote with your

Re: Twilio blocked our account and with it hundreds of our customers [resolved]

#147
post #29

Sorry to hear. Twilio has changed since its early days. Last month, our bill went from $20 per month to $16,000. The reason: fraudsters use Twilio to setup premium numbers, then use Twilio customers (like us) to send OTPs to those numbers using bots. The result is us out of pocket, fraudsters and Twilio making money. Twilio is also the only Pay as you Go SaaS vendor that doesn’t have spend limits on accounts and advi…

[deleted]

Re: Twilio blocked our account and with it hundreds of our customers [resolved]

#148
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I've heard surrounding the Parler incident, AWS worked _with_ Parler staff to get their data off the platform. Sure, it's not a hot-swap to Azure or metal or whatever, but it was nice to see that they didn't hold Parler's data hostage or just plain delete it. I'd assume the same courtesy would be extended to any customer, provided their ToS breaches aren't significantly worse (read: illegal) and it's not a…

>I'd assume the same courtesy would be extended to any customer Unpopular opinion. You see, I dont want assumption. I want guarantees. I also dont want a platform owner to remove you without some days if not weeks notice. I mean your landlord and court give you time for eviction. At least I hope that is true, I am not sure if time to vacate is universal across the world. They also give little to no time to solve any…

Ok, then own your things. Your iOS time capsule is your computer with either macOS or iTunes installed on it; you've been able to backup and sync (even wirelessly, if I'm remembering correctly) more content than an iCloud backup would let you backup anyways.

Spin up your own servers, etc. I don't really get why so many people here think AWS is the only way to run a website nowadays; you can put metal in a closet anywhere that has a good enough internet connection. If you're planning on doing shit that'll get your cloud accounts suspended, why on earth are you using a cloud provider?

The only way to _guarantee_ that you'll have access to your data no matter what is to own it, so own it!

Back to your eviction policy- it's common in my area for leases to have a clause stating that landlords may recoup delinquent rent by entering your apartment and taking your property. Legal? Don't know, but my lease as well as the leases of most of my friends have this clause in them. I also know that university housing will kick you out with Maybe we just have very different points of view/experiences, but in my eyes you can't "own" anything in a cloud provider. This is fine for most circumstances (i.e. my personal site is on Netlify but if I get kicked off I still have all the source), but if you need to own something just put it on your own server.

Re: Twilio blocked our account and with it hundreds of our customers [resolved]

#149
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AWS SNS SMS seems best suited for internal communications (we use it for alerts); it does not seem suitable for commercial use where you require targeted sends, you'd have to create a topic for each customer. Source: use it and twilio.

Are you sure? https://docs.aws.amazon.com/sns/latest/dg/sms_publish-to-pho...

Clearly not.

Looks like we'd need https://docs.aws.amazon.com/pinpoint/latest/userguide/channe...

Which isn't bad, but is much more limited than what Twilio provides.

Re: Twilio blocked our account and with it hundreds of our customers [resolved]

#150

Disclaimer: IANAL As far as telephony is concerned (things like SMS are a different story), a phone provider cannot legally do this, even if you signed some ToS agreement. According to the FCC, phone providers, including voip providers, have legal requirements around when they are allowed to terminate service: https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/when-your-telephone-com...

The page you link to says that this doesn’t apply to mobile providers in general.

I was under the impression that voip is not considered "wireless" but I could be mistaken there.
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