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Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court

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Re: Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court

#321

Post by yladiz »

mpweiher wrote: post #152
mschuster91 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is utterly wrong. https://taz.de/Mehr-Baugenehmigungen-in-Berlin/!5706294/

Nope. Your article was for the first half of 2020. For the whole year of 2020, the numbers were down again, fourth year running. "16.03.2021: Heute hat das Amt für Statistik Berlin-Brandenburg die Baugenehmigungszahlen für das Jahr 2020 veröffentlicht. Die Zahl der Baugenehmigungen sank in Berlin das vierte Jahr in Folge." https://www.immobilien-aktuell-magazin.de/topics/auswirkunge... https://www.rbb24.de/politik/be…

If it's been happening for four years, how did the Mietendeckel cause it?

Re: Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court

#322

Post by qayxc »

corty wrote: post #311
qayxc wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few years ago I would've agreed. Today I'm leaning more towards - "so what?". As long as there's obviously enough space to waste on detached houses and land speculation in the middle of the city, it can't be all that bad. If it was really such a big deal, "someone" would've paid "somebody" already to relocate the animals "after business hours", if you catch my drift. There's more going on behind the scenes for sure…

> If it was really such a big deal, "someone" would've paid "somebody" already to relocate the animals "after business hours", if you catch my drift. There's more going on behind the scenes for sure that we just don't know about. Doesn't work, the next thing that will happen is the tree-huggers (B.U.N.D. and others) will get public money to re-establish the population and impose stricter protection measures. In Germa…

> In Germany, the environment gets far far better protection than the people.

So how come Glyphosat wasn't banned immediately then? How come nitrate in drinking water goes up [0] and treatment becomes ever more expensive while at the same time industrial livestock farming still gets heavily subsidised?

German politics still bends a knee to industrial farming, chemical industry, and heavy industry more than the environment, don't fool yourself.

There's a reason the insect population has decreased by over 70% in the last 3 decades [1]. All because the environment is top priority, I presume.

The reality is that still no-one cares and the few things that are being done (tunnels and bridges for wildlife to cross roads, relocation programs for endangered species, etc.) are blown out of proportion by critics while the big picture looks bleaker than ever.

FYI there's ain't going to be many trees around for the "tree huggers" to hug in a few years if things continue to go the way they do [2]. But yeah, it's all to easy with the us-vs.-them instead of tackling actual roots of the problems...

[0] www.umweltbundesamt.de/themen/wasser/grundwasser/nutzung-belastungen/faqs-zu-nitrat-im-grund-trinkwasser

[1] https://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/19/europe/insect-decline-ger...

[2] https://www.nationalgeographic.de/umwelt/2021/02/deutscher-w...

Re: Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court

#323

Post by qayxc »

llampx wrote: post #319
qayxc wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few years ago I would've agreed. Today I'm leaning more towards - "so what?". As long as there's obviously enough space to waste on detached houses and land speculation in the middle of the city, it can't be all that bad. If it was really such a big deal, "someone" would've paid "somebody" already to relocate the animals "after business hours", if you catch my drift. There's more going on behind the scenes for sure…

It is that bad, but the people who are affected are not the ones making the decisions. Just like with the Mietendeckel. The politicians have nice apartments and villas already and high incomes, same with the ones who want to reduce welfare payments. They are rarely affected by the policies they enact.

> It is that bad, but the people who are affected are not the ones making the decisions.

It could be argued that they are - both indirectly (by electing the representatives that do make the decisions) and directly (by lack of [legal!] activism for their cause).

It's a case of pointing fingers instead of lifting a finger.

edit: what I mean by that is votes and protests do matter as does providing reasonable alternatives. I see that happen way too little in Germany. Try something in France and they set half of Paris on fire each time; not that I think that's better, but at least it shows that people actually care.

Re: Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court

#324

Post by nicbou »

timdaub wrote: post #116

I've been protected by this rule. I live in the north of Berlin. It saved me roughly 100€ a month. I found it fair for the appartment I rent. I can't say much about other cases. Since I have to pay back the cummulative savings to my landlord in case the law is overturned(which happened today), I saved 100€ extra each month. It's likely that I'll now have to increase my rent payment by 100€ and pay back roughly 1000€…

There's still the Mietpreisbremse, which many people could try to apply. It's not as straightforward, but it's not a contested law.

Unfortunately, this takes time, and people will be asked to give the money back NOW.

Re: Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court

#325

Post by patrickk »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #316
patrickk wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole Anglosphere seems to have issues with housing, in addition to those places you mention. It seems to be a common cultural issue where people gamble on property like crazy. I'm from Ireland, and this is true there (in the desirable urban areas where semi-decent jobs exist), it's true in the UK[1], it's true in the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. New Zealand banned foreigners from buying property[2]. Am…

This has to change, with the diminishing birth rates. Growth will stop then reverse. Housing maybe become an issue of dealing with empty buildings and abandoned neighborhoods.

Even with declining birth rates, there is still the global urbanisation trend, and the best paid jobs in knowledge sectors tend to cluster together. So while rural areas, and even entire countries (like some of the former USSR states) are emptying out, the cities where the best jobs are will keep rising in importance, and presumably, rental costs unless something drastic changes.

Re: Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court

#326

Post by nicbou »

nocobot wrote: post #222

This is a disaster for lots of people who signed a "shadow rent" contract and now owe their landlords. I know quite a few friends who won't be able to pay. In many cases this essentially doubles their rent.

I'm scrambling to give these people an action plan, with the help of more competent people in the industry. There's a senate meeting on Tuesday to decide how to approach this problem.

On the bright side, you might still be eligible for the slower, less universal Mietpreisbremse. There's a lawtech startup that helps people get that reduction. They keep 5x the monthly reduction as a fee.

Re: Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court

#327

Post by andreiursan »

rorykoehler wrote: post #41
adrianN wrote: post #11

I wish Berlin would just build more housing instead. For example when I cross the street there is a supermarket. It's a single story building with a huge parking lot around it. Why not make it a multistory building with apartments on top of the supermarket and skip the parking space or put it underground? Why does the city give out building permits for such buildings? There could easily be room for thirty families on…

It seems like covid will solve the Berlin housing problem. My building in Schillerkiez is slowly emptying out.

Any specific reason why is emptying out?

Re: Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court

#328

Post by mpweiher »

yladiz wrote: post #321
mpweiher wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. Your article was for the first half of 2020. For the whole year of 2020, the numbers were down again, fourth year running. "16.03.2021: Heute hat das Amt für Statistik Berlin-Brandenburg die Baugenehmigungszahlen für das Jahr 2020 veröffentlicht. Die Zahl der Baugenehmigungen sank in Berlin das vierte Jahr in Folge." https://www.immobilien-aktuell-magazin.de/topics/auswirkunge... https://www.rbb24.de/politik/be…

If it's been happening for four years, how did the Mietendeckel cause it?

In 2015, a similar but less draconian "Mietpreisbremse" was enacted at the federal level. 2016 was the year the construction trend turned from yearly increases to declines, and it has been declining consistently ever since.

In 2019, in anticipation of the Mietendeckel, the decline became significantly steeper.

Several large companies announced that they were halting all new construction and renovation projects.

At the same time, inventory has practically disappeared. So instead of "unaffordable" housing[1] for new tenants, we now have no housing for new tenants. (Existing rents were already protected).

[1] Berlin is still cheap compared other large German cities and certainly compared to most capital cities of industrialised countries or places like SF. It's just not quite as ridiculously cheap any longer.

Re: Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court

#329

Post by crumbshot »

codekansas wrote: post #320
crumbshot wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It all depends on how it's implemented. The usual method of controlling rent is to cap only a subset of properties in an area - for example, leaving new builds or new tenancies exempt. Which tends to create a two-tier system that benefits one set of tenants at the expense of the other, while discouraging reallocation for downsizing and suchlike. And as you allude to, without further restrictions on tenancy contract t…

In some US cities like Portland the construction costs for public housing are typically double costs for comparable private housing. The government has little motivation or expertise to reduce the cost since the bill is footed by the public. Seems much more parasitic in my opinion

That's a separate issue, assuming it really is an issue, and not just an indication that those private housing developments in Portland are being constructed with a cheaper, lower build quality so that their investors can generate more profit.

Re: Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court

#330

Post by goodpoint »

CryptoPunk wrote: post #298
goodpoint wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it's the fairest proxy we got You are simply rehashing the idea that free market is holy and magic. Instead, housing is inelastic. Also, apartments are non-fungible goods. Furthermore, they have a ton of externalities. (e.g. access to transportation, shops, workplaces, schools) All of this breaks every assumption around free market theory. Unsurprisingly, governments intervene heavily in the housing market…

>>You are simply rehashing the idea that free market is holy and magic. Instead, housing is inelastic. Housing is not inelastic at all. Economists have studied the effects of laws reducing land-use rights, and have found they impose massive social costs, in the form of less housing construction, that leads to less affordable housing. https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/mac.20170388

> less housing construction, that leads to less affordable housing

You mean that decreasing housing supply correlates with increasing price?

Because that's exactly what inelastic demand is: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/inelastic.asp

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