Psilocybin 'promising' for depression • Hacker News Board

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#141

Post by Leparamour » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 11:39 AM UTC

maxmamis wrote: post #114

rednum wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but I've met people that seemed to sort of lost their agency and ambition, because their psychedelic insight was that the universe will sort everything out on its own. Though maybe the causality is the other way round here - they were not ambitious in the first place and psychedelic insight helped rationalise that. Also disclaimer: I'm not trying to discourage or encourage people from psychedelics. Personally…

doesn't sound like their "minds were ruined", but rather that they have different priorities than you and that you're narrowminded and judgemental.

>but rather that they have different priorities than you and that you're narrowminded and judgemental.

Having been loosely affiliated with the Goa/Psytrance scene, I too, have met some individuals who seemed to have "fried" their brains.

If those "different priorities", how you call it, also include being almost dysfunctional and therefore dependent on constant external support, paranoid and frequently incoherent then, yes, it made me judgmental too.

And this isn't even speaking of phenomena like Hallucinogen persisting perception disorder (HPPD)[1].

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen_persisting_percep...

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#142

Post by tremon » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 11:43 AM UTC

vmception wrote: post #110

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Setting is definitely important, as is choice. One of the big problems with illegal psychedelics is that people aren't sure what they are getting. For instance, DOB and MDMA both come in pill form, but have wildly different effects. Some of the worst outcomes I've seen have come when one drug is believed to be another, and this is something that decriminalisation would definitely help with. That being said, psychedel…

> decriminalisation no only recreational legalization would do that

Here in NL, large festivals have drug testing booths, where the visitors can have their drugs tested so they know what they'll be ingesting. That's possible because of decriminalisation and destigmatization.

Legalization would allow the government to create a testing infrastructure so drugs can be tested/validated before they're sold, that's arguably better. But it's definitely possible to create a safer drug environment with decriminalisation only.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#143

Post by nmca » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 11:44 AM UTC

collyw wrote: post #133

dTal wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they are saying that lockdowns do nothing and any appearance that they do is backwards causality: "restrictions are follow[sic] the case numbers, but we have convinced ourselves it is the other way around". They're wrong, but that's what they're saying.

I didn't say they do nothing, lockdowns clearly cause massive harm and suffering yet there is no obvious benefit when compared to places that didn't lock down. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-84092-1

I've seen this claim bandied about, but if you look at Sweden and its neighbors the no-lockdown case has 1000s more deaths. There are perhaps subtle arguments, but "no obvious benefit" seems extremely tenuous.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#144

Post by simion314 » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 11:46 AM UTC

anonporridge wrote: post #51

simion314 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have zero experience with drugs, so I am wondering if there is a sugar/cigarette industry that put a lot of money into promoting it's products, then what will be different when drugs get legalized? Won't we repeat the history where companies make billions from this products, put them into ads to spread the use and addict people, suppress research into bad side effects etc,. Personally I think there are some good ap…

The nature of psychedelics makes it difficult to overuse them. Your body will actually build a tolerance to them and they'll stop working if you use too regularly. You also don't establish a physiological addiction like you do with drugs like nicotine and sugar. Finally, the dosage required is absurdly small and would be extremely cheap to mass produce. You can grow mushrooms relatively easy in your damn closet. It's…

You can also grow tabacco or make alcohol yourself, so I still expecting a giant industry that will try it's best to hide the side effects, blame the victim when something goes wrong, put billions in ads to make it look cool to use their products.

Why would you take micro doses of mushrooms rather then use an approved anti-depressant treatment? Your home grown mushrooms might differ in concentrations, the one you buy might be low quality...

I have nothing against the product, I am just anxious that it will be promoted as a miracle , "text mushrooms and your anxiety will be gone, your creativity is 10X better, see Joe the developer wrote this cool Rust project fueled just with weed and mushrooms in 48 hours" - I have a bias, I do not trust companies and capitalistic societies, they fuck the society for profit, we need to keep our eyes open on this studies, make impartial ones and maybe do something about misleading ads and posts promoting unsafe stuff.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#145

Post by giantg2 » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 11:46 AM UTC

SpikeMan wrote: post #67

simonswords82 wrote: post #7

I have a friend who has experienced magic mushrooms recreationally about half a dozen times in her 20s. After each trip she reported feeling clear headed and more mindful - she described it as though her mind's harddrive had been defragmented. Fast forward 10 years and that same friend felt low during lockdown over the past 12 months. After reading up online she decided to try microdosing mushrooms rather than the ma…

Reminds me of the documentary about Addreal and it's prevalence in tech and other high-functioning people. It quickly mentioned (anonymously) a SV tech person that switched to microdosing mushrooms rather than Addreal, and how that made everything better for her (but the documentary cut short on following up her case).

I thought you were going a different direction with that. I don't know if it was the same documentary, but the one I saw was focused on the medical and moral effects and questions around the use of Adderall in the tech population, college students, and children. The main gist I got from it was that people were using it without knowing the possible side effects, like liver issues or mood issues. And that many of the people in tech didn't actually need it but were using it to enhance performance, and found a doctor willing to write to script.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#146

Post by tremon » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 11:52 AM UTC

ceilingcorner wrote: post #75

arcticbull wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your insistence that this is the case is itself ideological. Haha, ok, well, in that case, on what basis were drugs banned? Specifically psychedelics. > We’re talking about current attitudes, not the reasons why they were banned in the first place. The current attitude is "drugs are bad" because of childhood education programs. Drugs are bad because they're illegal. You've seen the PSAs. It was never evidence based…

That isn’t what your comment said. You said “no amount of evidence is going to change it”. We’re talking about current attitudes, not the reasons why they were banned in the first place.

But if the current attitudes aren't based on evidence, what makes you think that more evidence will change those attitudes? That's what the GP is asking.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#147

Post by encryptluks2 » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 11:53 AM UTC

ganzuul wrote: post #124

encryptluks2 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean we could just discuss the issue of freedom and making it illegal for people to grow and consume a mushroom and stop making it about just drugs. Marijuana is the same way. If it isn't for someone then they shouldn't do it and we should make as much information available about something available and provide safe environments, but making it illegal especially when plenty of people have experienced positive effec…

Freedom is indeed one narrative. What is being (re-)constructed here is a narrative about plant medicine. The concepts used in each narrative are very different, so if we discussing both at the same time may confound each other.

True, but the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as stated in the United States Declaration of Independence has it covered pretty well. Growing your own mushrooms or marijuana does not restrict on other individual rights if they do so willingly, and therefore getting caught up in treating it like a drug that needs to be studied more before they consider making it more accessible seems a bit absurd IMO. They're not being made in labs and grow naturally in many parts of the US.

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#148

Post by temp0826 » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 11:53 AM UTC

sebmellen wrote: post #102

rednum wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but I've met people that seemed to sort of lost their agency and ambition, because their psychedelic insight was that the universe will sort everything out on its own. Though maybe the causality is the other way round here - they were not ambitious in the first place and psychedelic insight helped rationalise that. Also disclaimer: I'm not trying to discourage or encourage people from psychedelics. Personally…

Just a personal note, I experienced the complete opposite. I knew I wanted to do great things and accomplish things of importance, but depression was like a black cloud holding me back from doing so. Psychedelics took away that cloud and also infused a deep level of meaning into my everyday life. I went from depressed and basically dropping off the edge of the world to traveling across the world and starting a startu…

Fwiw 4-HO-DMT is psilocin (it and psilocybin are both in mushrooms in varying amounts; and psilocybin metabolizes into it in the body). It probably wasn't legal. 4-AcO-DMT is a bit more of a grey area (probably covered by the analogues act; allegedly also metabolizes to psilocin in the body too).

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#149

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 11:53 AM UTC

pbadenski wrote: post #99

internetslave wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a lot of people whose minds were ruined by psychedelics. It’s something you will see when you spend time in those communities. It doesn’t happen to everyone, but it’s common.

This type of empty fear mongering comment is unhelpful at best. It's a McDonalds of a comment. What's a lot of people? Why are psychedelics so special compared to anything else (sugar, Facebook, gambling). "It doesn't happen to everyone, but it's common" - what does this even mean? "Common" based on what criterion? How should our behaviour as a society change based on your comment?

[deleted]

Re: Psilocybin 'promising' for depression

#150

Post by rednum » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 12:01 PM UTC

sebmellen wrote: post #102

rednum wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but I've met people that seemed to sort of lost their agency and ambition, because their psychedelic insight was that the universe will sort everything out on its own. Though maybe the causality is the other way round here - they were not ambitious in the first place and psychedelic insight helped rationalise that. Also disclaimer: I'm not trying to discourage or encourage people from psychedelics. Personally…

Just a personal note, I experienced the complete opposite. I knew I wanted to do great things and accomplish things of importance, but depression was like a black cloud holding me back from doing so. Psychedelics took away that cloud and also infused a deep level of meaning into my everyday life. I went from depressed and basically dropping off the edge of the world to traveling across the world and starting a startu…

> What might interest you is all the psychedelics I did were technically legal. Shoutout to 4-AcO-DMT and 4-HO-DMT.

They are both illegal where I live (Poland). The government maintains a huge list of forbidden substances (link only in polish: https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wykaz_%C5%9Brodk%C3%B3w_odurza...). This is in response to a big designer drugs crisis that started over decade ago. Which most likely than not was caused by tightening of the drug laws happened around two decades ago. It's a bad situation that will take another decade to improve, I suppose.