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DuckDuckGo Extension to Block FLoC, Google’s New Tracking Method in Chrome

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Re: DuckDuckGo Extension to Block FLoC, Google’s New Tracking Method in Chrome

#51

Post by sjwright »

johnchristopher wrote: post #47
rapnie wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might say "Optimized for privacy-respecting browsers. Chrome users might experience issues [more info]"

In what way is the site "optimized for privacy-respecting browsers" ? The browser is the thing being optimized. Does it mean to say that the website operators will intentionnaly not respect privacy of Chrome users but they will for Firefox ? “Chrome users might experience issues” but what issues ? It reads like a dishonest TOS like the one used by service providers using catch-all statements to cover their backs. It…

As a web developer I don’t test in Chrome—I develop against Firefox and sanity check using Safari iOS.

Therefore my site is explicitly optimised for Firefox. Chrome users might experience issues. Or they won’t. I have no idea.

Re: DuckDuckGo Extension to Block FLoC, Google’s New Tracking Method in Chrome

#52

Post by gkbrk »

johnchristopher wrote: post #47
rapnie wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might say "Optimized for privacy-respecting browsers. Chrome users might experience issues [more info]"

In what way is the site "optimized for privacy-respecting browsers" ? The browser is the thing being optimized. Does it mean to say that the website operators will intentionnaly not respect privacy of Chrome users but they will for Firefox ? “Chrome users might experience issues” but what issues ? It reads like a dishonest TOS like the one used by service providers using catch-all statements to cover their backs. It…

You could fill a website with privacy-invasive scripts from Google, like 100 copies of Google Analytics and another 100 copies of Google Adsense. This would make it optimized for privacy-respecting browsers which block these, and the website would become slower on Google Chrome thanks to Google's own scripts.

Without going to such absurd lengths, a lot of the APIs Google came up with to complicate the web and slow down browser competition are usually bad for privacy. A browser that blocks those will probably have better performance if the website has fingerprinting scripts that use a lot of those APIs.

Re: DuckDuckGo Extension to Block FLoC, Google’s New Tracking Method in Chrome

#53

Post by manuelflara »

theonlybutlet wrote: post #41

To be honest though, for the general public not using adblockers, is FloC not better privacy wise than your traditional cookies?

I'll leave this quote from the EFF article on FloC[1]

> Google’s pitch to privacy advocates is that a world with FLoC (and other elements of the “privacy sandbox”) will be better than the world we have today, where data brokers and ad-tech giants track and profile with impunity. But that framing is based on a false premise that we have to choose between “old tracking” and “new tracking.” It’s not either-or. Instead of re-inventing the tracking wheel, we should imagine a better world without the myriad problems of targeted ads.

[1] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/03/googles-floc-terrible-...

Re: DuckDuckGo Extension to Block FLoC, Google’s New Tracking Method in Chrome

#54

Post by sjwright »

ikornaselur wrote: post #43
erdo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm honestly ok with ads, I am not ok with "personalised" ads

It always surprises me when people say that they're fine with personalised ads, even going so far as saying that if they're getting ads they want them to be personalised. I guess I _can_ understand why, they want them to be potentially useful if they're seeing them... To me though, sure, show me ads, fine, whatever, but don't build them around a profile of me to try to manipulate me directly based on my potential int…

I just don’t like the idea of having my own devices conspire against me to compromise my own privacy.

Re: DuckDuckGo Extension to Block FLoC, Google’s New Tracking Method in Chrome

#55

Post by ArneBab »

bipson wrote: post #46

I don't know man. I was really happy about DDG existing and making an effort (although I am not a user). But they now clearly shifted from a "Noble Actor" to a "Competitor" with this aggressive marketing. I don't appreciate these marketing campaigns that are directed at the competition. I never liked the "I'm a Mac"-campaigns, nor the all the "Bing"-fearmongering. It signals to me that you're not a fighter for a nobl…

Preventing noble actors from doing aggressive marketing causes them to stay small. Marketing is required to get market share nowadays. If the marketing causes people to find you to whom your are the better choice, then it is good marketing ⇒ https://www.draketo.de/anderes/honest-marketing

Re: DuckDuckGo Extension to Block FLoC, Google’s New Tracking Method in Chrome

#56

Post by chiefalchemist »

bipson wrote: post #46

I don't know man. I was really happy about DDG existing and making an effort (although I am not a user). But they now clearly shifted from a "Noble Actor" to a "Competitor" with this aggressive marketing. I don't appreciate these marketing campaigns that are directed at the competition. I never liked the "I'm a Mac"-campaigns, nor the all the "Bing"-fearmongering. It signals to me that you're not a fighter for a nobl…

But why even try a different product if you don't know why it exists? And what makes it better? How do you communicate that?

Different messages have different appeals. Perhaps DDG's marketing "secret sauce" is word of mouth? And the message you don't like - as an admitted non-user - isn't meant to drive your behavior, but the WoM behaviour of current committed users?

Re: DuckDuckGo Extension to Block FLoC, Google’s New Tracking Method in Chrome

#57

Post by hnbad »

dnndev wrote: post #50

What about Microsoft edge?

In my humble opinion if you're using Windows 10 there's no reason not to use Edge because you're already allowing Microsoft to invade your privacy.

But Firefox is a good browser and "morally" a better choice for many reasons others have already summarized.

Personally I use Edge as a developer because it's a Chromium browser (so it reflects most of my users' experience and works with a lot of tooling developed for Chrome), I already use Windows 10 and VS Code and it comes preinstalled.

But I used Firefox between the initial release of Quantum and the release of the new Edge browser and while there are both benefits and drawbacks to its dev tooling, it's definitely a good browser and purely on a quality/UX level I see no reason not to use Firefox.

Re: DuckDuckGo Extension to Block FLoC, Google’s New Tracking Method in Chrome

#58

Post by ArneBab »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #16
zenincognito wrote: post #2

No thank you. I appreciate what DDG is trying to do but in the end, a search engine that makes money from selling ads trying to protect me from another search engine that also sells ads is just feeding the ecosystem. I am going to put my money into FF no matter how annoying some of the things in it are.

Under terms of an agreement, FF sends search bar queries to a "search engine that makes money from selling ads." The search engine belongs to an online ad services company. FF belongs to Mozilla Corporation. The agreement is between the ad services company and Mozilla Corporation. Mozilla Corporation pays the salaries of the developers who maintain FF. Almost all of Mozilla Corporation's income, certainly 100% of the…

They try to get away from that model, though. Not very successfully (how to get people to pay for a browser?), but they try.

Re: DuckDuckGo Extension to Block FLoC, Google’s New Tracking Method in Chrome

#59

Post by troelsSteegin »

Is there an API that allows me to see, unpack, and set my own cohort? The FloC explainer [0] suggests the basic API just returns a stable hash [0]. I am curious about the space of cohorts. Also, whether there'd be an advantage to choosing a cohort for my task, vs just being anonymous.

EDIT: that would appear to be TURTLEDOVE [1]

[0] https://github.com/WICG/floc [1] https://github.com/WICG/turtledove

The FloC announcement is https://blog.google/products/ads-commerce/2021-01-privacy-sa...

The whitepaper explains the approach: https://github.com/google/ads-privacy/blob/master/proposals/...

Re: DuckDuckGo Extension to Block FLoC, Google’s New Tracking Method in Chrome

#60

Post by nirui »

erdo wrote: post #7
zenincognito wrote: post #2

No thank you. I appreciate what DDG is trying to do but in the end, a search engine that makes money from selling ads trying to protect me from another search engine that also sells ads is just feeding the ecosystem. I am going to put my money into FF no matter how annoying some of the things in it are.

I'm honestly ok with ads, I am not ok with "personalised" ads

I use many Google services, and generated many records on their platform such as payment, cloud computing service, email, file storage. That is a lots of information, making me slowly losing my confidence on whether or not I can recover if someday Google turn their back on me.

My opinion is, if DDG is showing me some ads based on my search keywords (which is sort personalised) so they can make some money out of their not-so-bad service? Fine by me.

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