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Europe eyes strict rules for artificial intelligence

politico.eu

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Re: Europe eyes strict rules for artificial intelligence

#21

Post by why_Mr_Anderson »

0xfaded wrote: post #3

Europe is going to need to cut itself off from the rest of the world if it really wants a market with much stricter rules than its global competitors. It already has totally asymmetric relationships with its trading partners, where Europe sells mostly luxury goods which can easily be boycotted. Germany, of all countries, is unwilling to acknowledge a genocide to protect their auto industry. It wont be a total segrega…

Mostly luxury goods? I strongly disagree. For example - many industries use/depend on machines and tools made in Germany.

Re: Europe eyes strict rules for artificial intelligence

#22

Post by qaq »

bigfudge wrote: post #18
qaq wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's trivial to move to EU but I don't see US tech people actually taking advantage of that, even though large proportion in theory supports EU style policies.

That’s because people live in communities and families, even in the US. People are not just economic optimising units.

Right everyone who moved to SF obviously optimized for family and quality of life.

Re: Europe eyes strict rules for artificial intelligence

#23

Post by bigfudge »

CryptoPunk wrote: post #15
bigfudge wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds good. Respect for employment standards and the environment with fewer billionaires’ vanity projects. Sign me up.

These vanity projects hold the potential to massively improve quality of life for people across the world. Look at the Starlink high-speed satellite internet network, and what that can do for internet access. Energy generation could also become massively cleaner and more affordable with advances in reusable rockets, as space-based solar power generation affordable.

They could. But there are also large potential benefits from state funded basic science, which all of these startups depend on, incidentally. Musk, Bezos et al are doing cool stuff, but they are basically parasitic on a system which provides the people and conditions in which they can operate.

Re: Europe eyes strict rules for artificial intelligence

#24

Post by [deleted] »

qaq wrote: post #16
bigfudge wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds good. Respect for employment standards and the environment with fewer billionaires’ vanity projects. Sign me up.

It's trivial to move to EU but I don't see US tech people actually taking advantage of that, even though large proportion in theory supports EU style policies.

[deleted]

Re: Europe eyes strict rules for artificial intelligence

#25

Post by AstralStorm »

NalNezumi wrote: post #11

>The proposal also wants to prohibit AI systems that cause harm to people by manipulating their behavior, opinions or decisions; exploit or target people's vulnerabilities; and for mass surveillance. >But the rules carve out an exception allowing authorities to use the tech if they're fighting serious crime Wow, if I haven't heard this "proposal" format before in dystopian book or real-world cases... I'd say it miss…

The exception should be gone, as it is literally empowering government . We do not have such exception in GDPR, and neither should we for police systems.

If the statistical or AI system makes a serious mistake in this area, consequences are even more disastrous. Their usefulness is dubious anyway.

Re: Europe eyes strict rules for artificial intelligence

#26

Post by CryptoPunk »

bigfudge wrote: post #23
CryptoPunk wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These vanity projects hold the potential to massively improve quality of life for people across the world. Look at the Starlink high-speed satellite internet network, and what that can do for internet access. Energy generation could also become massively cleaner and more affordable with advances in reusable rockets, as space-based solar power generation affordable.

They could. But there are also large potential benefits from state funded basic science, which all of these startups depend on, incidentally. Musk, Bezos et al are doing cool stuff, but they are basically parasitic on a system which provides the people and conditions in which they can operate.

That's unrelated to the fact that we are better off having these projects than not.

As for being 'parasitic', that goes both ways. Taxes are not a voluntary system, and much of the resources extracted are wasted and/or used to enrich rent-seeking insiders who are close to the government.

Re: Europe eyes strict rules for artificial intelligence

#27

Post by AstralStorm »

patates wrote: post #10
Deukhoofd wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Social scoring systems, such as those launched in China that track the trustworthiness of people and businesses, are classified as "contravening the Union values" and are going to be banned. > The proposal also wants to prohibit AI systems that cause harm to people by manipulating their behavior, opinions or decisions; exploit or target people's vulnerabilities; and for mass surveillance. > many technologies curren…

> algorithms used to scan CVs so "5 clever if statements" (which most CV parsers are, if that wasn't clear) too are subject to extra scrutiny depending on application being labeled high risk or not. I'm not sure how to feel about this. I feel it's good intentions but marketed wrong. Why not just say, we will evaluate critical software like we evaluate other critical engineering projects/infrastructure? Why mix in AI?

What does it mean "like other critical projects"?

Do you mean like buildings or lawyers? Certified AI architecture now? Nobody even knows what such process would entail!

The biggest hole is that the AI or statistical systems are not explainable. When push comes to shove, their reasoning is a black hole. Any such system, whether ran by people or automatic, is instant corruption and inequity magnet.

5 if statements are explainable and subject to proper scrutiny.

Re: Europe eyes strict rules for artificial intelligence

#28

Post by alexgmcm »

I think it's going to be hard to create regulations for an industry that largely doesn't exist yet, without strangling it at birth.

The rules don't really make much sense either:

> Social scoring systems, such as those launched in China that track the trustworthiness of people and businesses, are classified as "contravening the Union values" and are going to be banned.

Does this mean stuff like Yelp reviews will be banned now? Or is that not "AI" enough to count?

Between this and the horrendous anti-GM laws, Europe will struggle to compete in the future. But I guess it'll create jobs for a whole new load of bureaucrats.

Re: Europe eyes strict rules for artificial intelligence

#30

Post by AstralStorm »

CryptoPunk wrote: post #20
AstralStorm wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Significant negative? Proper consent paper trail is derailment now? Someone unable to handle consent forms should not be anywhere near medicine. Perhaps someone should reevaluate how things are ran. Wild west ended with company towns and literal slaughter. Perhaps that is a good thing to avoid.

Less scientific research and collaboration being done is a negative consequence irrespective of any positives GDPR produces. And company towns were generally good: https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2015/01/in...

We haven't seen the worst about company towns because they were regulated away. Do we have to get there before same thing happens with AI, like it did with so many things like: healthcare, products being toxic, people literally dying?

By the way, what about military uses? Counterintelligence? Anything goes?

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