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Ten years of OP-1

teenage.engineering

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Re: Ten years of OP-1

#161

Post by seabird »

smoldesu wrote: post #56

Teenage Engineering is a frustrating company. On the one hand, they set out to create some of the most fun music equipment you can own: their Pocket Operator line is awesome for beginners of the hardware world, and they've consistently innovated with their grooveboxes. The problem? They have absolutely no respect for their pricing model. The OP-1 used to cost $800, which was already a big ask for a microprocessor, OL…

This is top down pricing. Multiple engineers clocked a considerable amount of time on this project. The number of OP-1s sold probably numbers only in the low tens of thousands. It's priced appropriately considering how many they're going to sell and the value the device provides (and not just the raw material cost).

We do a lot of computer programming using free or cheap (and billed monthly) tools on this site, so it's really easy to forget that professionals in other fields will pay a premium for something that works with minimal fiddling. Watching electrical engineering managers dump tens of thousands into single pieces of test equipment to not have to fuck around with patchwork solutions is enlightening, and I think software developers would do that a lot more if the FOSS route wasn't the only thing they knew.

Re: Ten years of OP-1

#162

Post by devin »

musicalynejd wrote: post #139
devin wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do me a favor and go on YouTube or Instagram or Facebook and look up the million videos of people making music with it. You don’t know what you’re talking about here. I don’t know a single person who flashes their OP-1. By your argument, owning a guitar and only knowing a couple chords is “status symbol” purchase.

You know what I see in 20% of instagram pictures tagged OP-1? Cassettes. Are you telling me there is no hipster aesthetic that a lot of these posters aspire too?

Who cares? Are they making music?

If you don’t like some particular piece of music, just say so, but you’re pigeonholing a lot of people, and it makes you look like you’re saying “they’re wearing bellbottoms! This isn’t art!”

Re: Ten years of OP-1

#163

Post by devin »

bsder wrote: post #155
musicalynejd wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what I see in 20% of instagram pictures tagged OP-1? Cassettes. Are you telling me there is no hipster aesthetic that a lot of these posters aspire too?

Oh, God, you're not joking. Cassette--because 6 bit ADC's are good enough for everybody.

You don’t like the aesthetic. It would be art if it was high definition? What are you trying to say?

Re: Ten years of OP-1

#164

Post by bmitc »

smoldesu wrote: post #56

Teenage Engineering is a frustrating company. On the one hand, they set out to create some of the most fun music equipment you can own: their Pocket Operator line is awesome for beginners of the hardware world, and they've consistently innovated with their grooveboxes. The problem? They have absolutely no respect for their pricing model. The OP-1 used to cost $800, which was already a big ask for a microprocessor, OL…

The OP-1 was very popular and well known well before the shortage and subsequent price hike.

Re: Ten years of OP-1

#165

Post by sooheon »

musicalynejd wrote: post #139
devin wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do me a favor and go on YouTube or Instagram or Facebook and look up the million videos of people making music with it. You don’t know what you’re talking about here. I don’t know a single person who flashes their OP-1. By your argument, owning a guitar and only knowing a couple chords is “status symbol” purchase.

You know what I see in 20% of instagram pictures tagged OP-1? Cassettes. Are you telling me there is no hipster aesthetic that a lot of these posters aspire too?

Does this say more about the people who use OP-1 or the people who use Instagram?

Re: Ten years of OP-1

#166

Post by dag11 »

musicalynejd wrote: post #131
dag11 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> black and full of ports and cables like an actual musical device. Why does an "actual music device" have to be a certain color? I don't follow most of you argument, but especially that.

I didn't say they have to be, just that the vast majority are, maybe because they get a lot of usage and black is a good color for hiding dirt, maybe because they stand out less.

You kinda did though.

> "they look so clean...sacrificing ergonomy, since the aesthetic is what they are selling, so they can't look gnarly, black...like an actual musical device."

You're arguing that because they are a status symbol and have to look "clean and minimalist" they can't look black like an actual music device looks like. Of which I think your main point in that statement is that OP-1 != "actual music device".

Did I interpret it incorrectly?

Re: Ten years of OP-1

#167

Post by nemothekid »

smoldesu wrote: post #56

Teenage Engineering is a frustrating company. On the one hand, they set out to create some of the most fun music equipment you can own: their Pocket Operator line is awesome for beginners of the hardware world, and they've consistently innovated with their grooveboxes. The problem? They have absolutely no respect for their pricing model. The OP-1 used to cost $800, which was already a big ask for a microprocessor, OL…

>The OP-1 used to cost $800, which was already a big ask for a microprocessor, OLED screen and plastic enclosure

I'm not sure it makes sense to price a hardware product on it's BOM. This kind of thinking is what leads to most hardware being absolutely crappy. Good product designers need to be paid, and design choices don't show up in the BOM. The same goes to hardware.

When I see an ARM chip and an OLED screen going for $$$, the calculus in my mind is I'm actually paying for engineering and design labor, not a BOM.

Re: Ten years of OP-1

#168

Post by baby »

I’m a tad disappointed by how limited the op-z is in comparison. I thought the pocket operators were amazing, so amazing I bought my friends some, but the op-z was a bit underwhelming honestly.

Re: Ten years of OP-1

#169

Post by unixhero »

brandonmenc wrote: post #105
thenewwazoo wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are schools of (microeconomic) thought that would encourage them to raise prices even further in order to reduce demand to match their supply capability. If the second-hand market prices a good higher than the original seller, that's a very clear signal to increase the price. At least that way the profits end up in the manufacturer's pocket (which they can use to increase volume) instead of a speculator's. That…

> You seem to be seeing something nefarious in their discontinuing the OP-1, and then re-continuing it at a higher price. This is typical behavior of a certain large class of musicians, particularly electronic ones. The message boards are full of people complaining that these companies charge "too much." They will also then complain that Behringer sucks for "stealing" ideas and pricing them affordably. Meanwhile, it…

To be fair, Behringer is priced right, great prices for low quality gear.

Re: Ten years of OP-1

#170

Post by eggy »

I bought an OP-1 end of 2012 and I love(d) it. I've since become big on repair, and right to repair, and the OP-1 is not only expensive, but almost impossible to repair due to lack of parts. One day I could not get it to the boot screen while holding the COM button any longer, and I emailed TE. They told me many years ago that since I didn't buy it from them, I could send it to them for a fee to look at it and then fix it for a fee. OK, not unreasonable, but I figured I'll buy the part on their site from the parts list they sent: Spare parts:

    Keyboard-module (with display-glass): $45 / €45
    Connector PCB (for replacing mic / broken jacks): $35 / €35
    Speaker: $20 / €20
    Display: $35 / €35
    UI PCB: $70 / €70
    DSP PCB: $120 / €120
    Flex Cable: $24 / €24
    Battery: $20 / €20
    Encoder Knobs: $19 / €19
    Volume Knob: $6 / €6
    Spare key: $10 / €10
    Rubber feet: $5 / €5
    Paper Foam Case: $8 / €8
I figured I'd buy the DSP PCB based on some forum information. TE didn't have it in stock. [Sponge Bob voice] One Year Later...still not in stock. Now iFixit stocks TE parts. Not in stock...so, here I am with an OP-1 that works other than being able to update the OS/firmware or connect it to my PC via USB any longer. I would never buy from TE again. Years is not a reasonable waiting time for a spare part. If I send it to TE for a paid repair, by some miracle is the part then in stock? It's a shame, because I used to root for them, but now I feel like they've not addressed key parts of becoming a huge company with great products.
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