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EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry

reuters.com

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Re: EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry

#171

Post by s1artibartfast »

gambler wrote: post #149
s_dev wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems incredible now the University of Pennsylvania told the inventor mRNA that their contributions weren't worthwhile and let them go. https://billypenn.com/2020/12/29/university-pennsylvania-cov... And now on social media they've done a full 180 and are acting as if it were their contribution to the world when the reality is quite different.

>Seems incredible now the University of Pennsylvania told the inventor mRNA that their contributions weren't worthwhile and let them go. Incredible from common sense perspective, but totally expected if you know how American academia operates these days.

I don't think it was common sense 30 years ago that this technology would eventually pay off.

I imagine things looked pretty grim for the first 24 years the university employed her to work on it with little commercial traction, and the technology was only finally demonstrated due to a freak global pandemic 7 years after that.

Re: EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry

#172

Post by google234123 »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #75
seriousquestion wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long Covid is mostly self reported vague symptoms, namely fatigue and brain fog. It's what happens when you stay at home too much and don't get enough exercise and have a poor diet. Isolation? The Covid 15* that many of us packed on? You will feel worse and especially more fatigued, no doubt. Not to mention being constantly immersed in an environment of fear. It's a misattribution to associate side effects of weight…

I have lc. It is borderline crippling. I can barely climb the stairs and terms like "brain fog" are comically inaccurate. Its like being drugged or having something like dementia. I've only somehow managed to barely keep my job by hiding this from my employer. I'm also usually unable to stay away the entire daya and have hard crashes in the afternoon where I must lie down and crash into a weird deep sleep or I might…

The fact that you feel like the vaccine helped you makes me suspect your symptoms are not due to covid. Getting covoid will provide the same type of lasting immunity as a vaccine. Moreover, the existence of chronic lyme disease is very dubious.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/chronic-lyme-disease-anothe... https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/fake-diagnoses-not-fake-dis...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#Psychology

Re: EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry

#173

Post by bsder »

syntaxing wrote: post #39

Seems like mRNA vaccines is winning the the race against other emerging technology like viral vector. If we manage to figure out the nanolipids to live in better temperature conditions, mRNA will change our generation.

> Seems like mRNA vaccines is winning the the race against other emerging technology like viral vector.

But it could very well have failed.

The fact that we have a surfeit of vaccines is something NO ONE predicted. Everybody was just hoping that one of them would work.

In addition, the A/Z and J&J vaccines don't need the same level of cold chain refrigeration that the Moderna and Pfizer ones do.

While in the US and the EU we have the infrastructure to choose between any of the major vaccines, in many places of the world this is not true. It's the A/Z and J&J vaccines or nothing.

Re: EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry

#174

Post by [deleted] »

google234123 wrote: post #172
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have lc. It is borderline crippling. I can barely climb the stairs and terms like "brain fog" are comically inaccurate. Its like being drugged or having something like dementia. I've only somehow managed to barely keep my job by hiding this from my employer. I'm also usually unable to stay away the entire daya and have hard crashes in the afternoon where I must lie down and crash into a weird deep sleep or I might…

The fact that you feel like the vaccine helped you makes me suspect your symptoms are not due to covid. Getting covoid will provide the same type of lasting immunity as a vaccine. Moreover, the existence of chronic lyme disease is very dubious. https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/chronic-lyme-disease-anothe... https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/fake-diagnoses-not-fake-dis... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#Psycholog…

[deleted]

Re: EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry

#175

Post by JamisonM »

polack wrote: post #163
JamisonM wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a no-brainer to spend this money. Someone in the world is going to have a use for these vaccines, buy them and then give them away if you don't need them in the end but in the meantime just book more supply. 18 months from now if the world is flushing COVID-19 vaccines down toilets due to surpluses every dollar will have been worth spending, the downsides are too great.

The problem is that this option is to buy AZ's current vaccine that have a high probability of being ineffective in 18 months. EU is not saying that it won't buy from AZ, but as of now it's not well spent money to buy their current one to be delivered in 18 months. By then all companies will have new better vaccines and the EU would have to fork up a shitload of money on the new AZ vaccine and just write the old of a…

> The problem is that this option is to buy AZ's current vaccine that have a high probability of being ineffective in 18 months.

I doubt that is a "high probability" occurrence.

If it does occur and AZ makes a lot of money, I don't care. The EU has many shitloads of money to spend, spread out your bets, go to town, reward every vaccine producer with huge profits, that's what we want, we want all of the companies that bet big on developing products - successful or unsuccessful - to make money off this thing. That way if it happens again they won't be shy about giving it another go!

Re: EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry

#176

Post by JamisonM »

Hallucinaut wrote: post #170
polack wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that this option is to buy AZ's current vaccine that have a high probability of being ineffective in 18 months. EU is not saying that it won't buy from AZ, but as of now it's not well spent money to buy their current one to be delivered in 18 months. By then all companies will have new better vaccines and the EU would have to fork up a shitload of money on the new AZ vaccine and just write the old of a…

Isn't AZ selling the vaccine at cost? Won't AZ also have the opportunity to improve their vaccine (or delivery protocol)? Won't more data be available in one year with which to make these decisions?

Regardless of the margins involved, I think it is improbable that AZ would want to produce an obsolete vaccine when those facilities could be producing a better one if they have something ready to go. Its not like everyone involved here is a sociopath, they can put the money down now and renegotiate for a mutually beneficial change to the contract.

Re: EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry

#177

Post by modularform123 »

selectodude wrote: post #105
cm2187 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The conversation is about the respective merits of one vaccine over another. The fact that one is a new approach with no long term data on humans whether the other is a traditional approach is relevant.

J&J and AZ adenovirus-vector covid vaccines are highly novel vaccines that are very similar to mRNA vaccines, just with a different delivery mechanism.

They may be similar in that they induce expression of the SARS-COV-2 spike protein, but they are very different in that the former contain full adenovirus particles which appear to be someone causing the autoimmune clotting problems.

Re: EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry

#178

Post by Apofis »

tpm wrote: post #88
jleyank wrote: post #36

Probably every drug has risks, many higher than the 1:1,000,000 reported for AZ/J&J. It's always a balance between the risk untreated vs. treated - many cancer drugs will kill you, but slower than they kill the cancer. Contraceptives have various issues, but their "social good" is deemed worthwhile. I've read that they are doing gene analysis to try and determine why these cases appear - is it gender, age, cross-reac…

Denmark reports AZ's serious blood clotting issue as up to 1:40'000. I will still get vaccinated with it if it's available in our country for me as I think the risk is worth it in my case. But if I was a woman under 60 and especially under 40 I would be hesitant to get vaccinated with AZ and probably wait for other vaccine.

Those are pretty terrible odds... I'm not sure I would jaywalk if it had those odds.

Re: EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry

#179

Post by dang »

refraincomment wrote: post #13
refraincomment wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As usual, advocating for personal freedom gets you downvoted. It's such a funny pattern.

What a bunch of retards you are :)

This kind of thing will get you banned here. Would you please review the rules and stick to them? You've been breaking them badly, unfortunately.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry

#180

Post by tablespoon »

rossdavidh wrote: post #67

Even if true (and apparently some German officials are saying it isn't), the contracts go through the end of 2021 is my understanding, so that makes these announcements a bit less significant than the headlines suggests. To be honest, it seems like there is an argument to be made that the rich countries _should_ stop buying the J&J and AZ vaccines, except perhaps to donate to poorer countries, because the mRNA vaccin…

> I wonder if the focus on (very rare) side effects is part of an effort to lay the groundwork for doing that without a huge backlash from rich country citizens.

But that focus also undermines the use of these vaccines in poorer countries. Who will want the thing that the rich countries rejected as substandard?

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