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Europe seeks to limit use of AI in society

bbc.com

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Re: Europe seeks to limit use of AI in society

#101

Post by joe_the_user »

modeless wrote: post #48
goatcode wrote: post #40

>The use of AI in the military is exempt, as are systems used by authorities in order to safeguard public security. Of course.

The problem with government regulation of AI is that the biggest threat is government use of AI. Rules for thee but not for me!

Government does regulate itself, sometimes. The proposal seems to be concerned with regulating the government, for example limiting "crime prediction". Also, the private institutions it's talking about are things like credit bureaus and employers large enough to use AI for screening employees.

Re: Europe seeks to limit use of AI in society

#102

Post by [deleted] »

avz wrote: post #63
8fGTBjZxBcHq wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My perspective is that our technological advancement has well outpaced our ability to adapt to the changes or bring our legal and social tools effectively to bear on them. A decade or two of stagnation would be frustrating for those in the field but probably overall a good thing. Plus I don't think this would affect research at all so not even.

> A decade or two of stagnation would be frustrating for those in the field but probably overall a good thing. Is a decade or two of a head start given to high-tech totalitarian regimes like China overall a good thing? > Plus I don't think this would affect research at all so not even. Limiting use of AI reduces interest of the public and young researchers and engineers, contributes to brain drain and limits availabi…

[deleted]

Re: Europe seeks to limit use of AI in society

#103

Post by tomp »

joe_the_user wrote: post #94

The listed examples seem reasonably good. * systems which establish priority in the dispatching of emergency services * systems determining access to or assigning people to educational institutes * recruitment algorithms * those that evaluate credit worthiness * those for making individual risk assessments * crime-predicting algorithms While I'd also like to see autonomous military devices banned, banned AI that make…

> we've seen ways AI can allow discrimination through the back door.

Do you have any concrete examples of these, in particular where the use of statistics or AI enables more discrimination than using human decisions?

Re: Europe seeks to limit use of AI in society

#104

Post by La1n »

throwawaysea wrote: post #83
KineticLensman wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> don't ban technology itself The EU isn't planning to ban underlying AI technologies, but instead to control its use in applications such as credit worthiness assessment

...which is basically banning people from measuring risk for themselves and deciding how to react to that risk themselves. How is this not authoritarian?

>How is this not authoritarian

Authoritatian can mean so many things, could you define it further. Cause how I read your comment I could call seatbelt laws authoritatian, and I guess you didn't mean that.

Re: Europe seeks to limit use of AI in society

#105

Post by KineticLensman »

trutannus wrote: post #62
geraneum wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government (ab)use of AI is is of course a serious threat. But I’d say big corporations abuse of AI is even worse. Assuming we are talking about a democratic state, at least there are some checks and balances on governments whereas people cannot elect a FAANG CEO or go to a ‘.gov’ website to read a transcript of board meetings. Edit: I am by no means advocating for government’s use of AI in any form.

A business can't lock you in a prison cell. I'd argue that the checks and balances at this point are little more than a mirage. Ruling by fiat is becoming more common, accountability less so. Government use of AI is far more menacing to me than a business using it.

> A business can't lock you in a prison cell

Perhaps not, but companies can deny you access to fundamental electronic infrastructure, use of which is increasingly essential in a cashless society where services are online or non-existent. With no right of appeal.

Re: Europe seeks to limit use of AI in society

#106

Post by thebackup »

keiferski wrote: post #2

Bonus points if they name the overseeing organization the Turing Police. And if Switzerland goes its own way and allows citizenship for AIs. In all seriousness, I’m not sure if these legal restrictions will actually be effective. They are too broad, vague, and will likely just result in technological stagnation.

I don’t believe in BDUF:ing even regulations too much, better to get a toothless first version out in the wild and then tweak it when in place.

Re: Europe seeks to limit use of AI in society

#107

Post by La1n »

bhupy wrote: post #97
La1n wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal Private prison kickbacks for conviction are a thing.

They're not presently a thing; it's just a scandal that happened at one time in history. It's also corruption, and corruption exists in both the private as well as public sectors. In the case of the Kids for Cash scandal, there have since been lawsuits, overturned adjudications, and commissions to ensure that it doesn't happen again. Solving corruption is orthogonal to the question of whether private corporations can…

>just a scandal that happened at one time in history.

I really hope that's true, but it might also be that it was only convicted for once in history while it happens more often.

Re: Europe seeks to limit use of AI in society

#108

Post by _1 »

tomp wrote: post #103
joe_the_user wrote: post #94

The listed examples seem reasonably good. * systems which establish priority in the dispatching of emergency services * systems determining access to or assigning people to educational institutes * recruitment algorithms * those that evaluate credit worthiness * those for making individual risk assessments * crime-predicting algorithms While I'd also like to see autonomous military devices banned, banned AI that make…

> we've seen ways AI can allow discrimination through the back door. Do you have any concrete examples of these, in particular where the use of statistics or AI enables more discrimination than using human decisions?

https://weaponsofmathdestructionbook.com/

Re: Europe seeks to limit use of AI in society

#109

Post by Aerroon »

8fGTBjZxBcHq wrote: post #7
keiferski wrote: post #2

Bonus points if they name the overseeing organization the Turing Police. And if Switzerland goes its own way and allows citizenship for AIs. In all seriousness, I’m not sure if these legal restrictions will actually be effective. They are too broad, vague, and will likely just result in technological stagnation.

My perspective is that our technological advancement has well outpaced our ability to adapt to the changes or bring our legal and social tools effectively to bear on them. A decade or two of stagnation would be frustrating for those in the field but probably overall a good thing. Plus I don't think this would affect research at all so not even.

>A decade or two of stagnation would be frustrating for those in the field but probably overall a good thing.

Won't they just leave? They could just go somewhere where this isn't banned.

Re: Europe seeks to limit use of AI in society

#110

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

tomp wrote: post #103
joe_the_user wrote: post #94

The listed examples seem reasonably good. * systems which establish priority in the dispatching of emergency services * systems determining access to or assigning people to educational institutes * recruitment algorithms * those that evaluate credit worthiness * those for making individual risk assessments * crime-predicting algorithms While I'd also like to see autonomous military devices banned, banned AI that make…

> we've seen ways AI can allow discrimination through the back door. Do you have any concrete examples of these, in particular where the use of statistics or AI enables more discrimination than using human decisions?

Why does it have to be "more"?
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