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Europe seeks to limit use of AI in society

bbc.com

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Re: Europe seeks to limit use of AI in society

#71

Post by aftbit »

quotemstr wrote: post #19
RankingMember wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed 100%. I appreciate the hacker mindset, but when things approach society-altering scale, "just because you can doesn't mean you should" should be the mantra, not "move fast and break things".

And who decides when that "should" condition is met? Over the past few years, I've seen far too many activists react to algorithms that notice true but politically inconvenient things by trying to shut down the algorithms, to pull wool over our eyes, to continue the illusion that things are other than what they are. Why should we keep doing that? I have zero faith in the ability of activists or states to decide when…

Not 100% sure what the parent is talking about, but my first thought is the predictive policing algorithms used in some jurisdictions to set bail and make parole decisions. My hazy understanding of the controversy is that these algorithms have "correctly" deduced that people of color are more likely to reoffend, thus they set bail higher or refuse release on parole disproportionately. At one fairly low level this algorithm has noticed something "true but politically inconvenient", but at a higher level, it is completely blind to the larger societal context and the structural racism that contributes to the racial makeup of convicted criminals. I'd argue that calling this simply "true" is neglecting a lot of important discussion.

Of course, perhaps the parent is referring to something else. I'd also like to see some examples.

Re: Europe seeks to limit use of AI in society

#72

Post by tgv »

pelorat wrote: post #57
imapeopleperson wrote: post #52

No one actually wants a society being ruled by computers, except maybe the people running those computers. This is at least a step in the right direction.

Speak for yourself. I take AI over EU politicians any day of the week.

You can't be serious. EU leadership has always been a bit weak, with a lot of compromises, and not a hard stance on foreign policy, but to prefer an unknown oracle? The current state of AI would even have it overfitted on a small relevant corpus padded with arbitrary other material. How can you expect that to produce better government?

Re: Europe seeks to limit use of AI in society

#73

Post by dalbasal »

tppiotrowski wrote: post #16

I thought this article would be about software in heavy machinery like self driving cars but it's more aimed at applications of AI that are incompatible with human rights: social scores, surveillance, crime-prediction, etc.

This is the problem: they don't really understand what they're trying to regulate. A lot of it is (a) data-privacy issues or (b) using data to make automated decisions. The "AI" part is superfluous, as far as I can see.

Lawmakers appear as caught up in labeling stuff "AI" as investors. It's going to make them less effective by letting them avoid actually defining what they're trying to prevent.

Consider:

"those (AIs) designed or used in a manner that manipulates human behaviour, opinions or decisions ...causing a person to behave, form an opinion or take a decision to their detriment"

It's clearly about advertising and social media. If you want regulation to be effective, specifics are good. Platitudes don't make good regulations.

Re: Europe seeks to limit use of AI in society

#74

Post by gramakri »

brobdingnagians wrote: post #65
goatcode wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any governing body seems to leave a lot of room for "except for pigs" when they write down their rules. The bigger the body, the more potential pigs there are.

Your use of "pigs" reminds me of: "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"

It's meant to remind you of that quote :) because the rules are made by pigs in the book Animal farm. Your quote comes from the same book

Re: Europe seeks to limit use of AI in society

#75

Post by jaredsohn »

cheschire wrote: post #69
trutannus wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A business can't lock you in a prison cell. I'd argue that the checks and balances at this point are little more than a mirage. Ruling by fiat is becoming more common, accountability less so. Government use of AI is far more menacing to me than a business using it.

This is needlessly pedantic, but private prisons are absolutely a thing in America.

The part that matters is what makes a person required to be in prison (i.e. government law / judicial system) and not who runs the prison.

Re: Europe seeks to limit use of AI in society

#76

Post by noshaker »

anticristi wrote: post #53
noshaker wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is the draft https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZaBPsfor_aHKNeeyXxk9uJfTru7...

Thanks! 81 pages and no executive summary?!?! I'm interested to read it, but this is likely to have the same effect as sleeping pills.

You can check out this tech crunch article where I got the draft from. It is a bit more detailed than the bbc article. https://techcrunch.com/2021/04/14/eu-plan-for-risk-based-ai-...

Re: Europe seeks to limit use of AI in society

#77

Post by visarga »

mc32 wrote: post #4
keiferski wrote: post #2

Bonus points if they name the overseeing organization the Turing Police. And if Switzerland goes its own way and allows citizenship for AIs. In all seriousness, I’m not sure if these legal restrictions will actually be effective. They are too broad, vague, and will likely just result in technological stagnation.

But, what good is technology for the sake of technology if it’s detrimental to people’s well-being? Technology to conquer ills, yes. Technology which alienates people, no. It’s kind of like the goths vs the romans or the inuit vs europeans. Is the value of progress more than the value of self-worth?

> Is the value of progress more than the value of self-worth?

Why is self worth put in antithesis with progress? Was past progress a cause of loss of self worth?

Re: Europe seeks to limit use of AI in society

#78

Post by vngzs »

> those designed or used in a manner that manipulates human behaviour, opinions or decisions ...causing a person to behave, form an opinion or take a decision to their detriment

This appears to obviously apply to the Facebook wall. You can find a high-profile example of this in [0], but [1] explains how this manipulation, which optimizes "engagement", is built deep into Facebook's design. I think the case that it causes users to form opinions and take decisions to their detriment is obvious, so these new laws should apply. Am I wrong?

[0]: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jun/29/facebook-...

[1]: https://qz.com/1039910/how-facebooks-news-feed-algorithm-sel...

Re: Europe seeks to limit use of AI in society

#79

Post by trutannus »

cheschire wrote: post #69
trutannus wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A business can't lock you in a prison cell. I'd argue that the checks and balances at this point are little more than a mirage. Ruling by fiat is becoming more common, accountability less so. Government use of AI is far more menacing to me than a business using it.

This is needlessly pedantic, but private prisons are absolutely a thing in America.

Of course, but the person who assigns you to that prison is still acting on behalf of the state. It would be correct to say that a business can keep you in a prison though!

Re: Europe seeks to limit use of AI in society

#80

Post by bhupy »

cheschire wrote: post #69
trutannus wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A business can't lock you in a prison cell. I'd argue that the checks and balances at this point are little more than a mirage. Ruling by fiat is becoming more common, accountability less so. Government use of AI is far more menacing to me than a business using it.

This is needlessly pedantic, but private prisons are absolutely a thing in America.

Although private prisons exist (in strikingly small numbers[1]), private corporations can't just decide to throw you into a private prison on a whim; the government decides that.

[1] https://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/private-priso...

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