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Just Be Rich

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Re: Just Be Rich

#961

Post by amelius »

soheyl wrote: post #949
astan wrote: post #945

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice response. Part of the problem is "pull yourself up by bootstraps" PG-tier p0rn. With a king, an average person isn't being told everyday that they too can become a king, if only they worked harder. With people like startup founders, VCs, Musk, Bezos and the like, constantly writing articles on how you too can become rich like them: http://paulgraham.com/richnow.html , average people view this life as achievable…

Absolutely. I think (hope) that what PG meant in that essay is that the rich people today get there by displaying more "sportsmanship" than 200 years ago. And I generally agree with that. And I think if you compare Bezos and Musk with whoever would rank similarly to them on Forbes list in 1821, you would agree too. But it absolutely does not mean that anyone can get there. The fact that Michael Phelps and Usain Bolt…

> The fact that Michael Phelps and Usain Bolt have won so many medals without (hopefully) juicing or bribing officials is great, and maybe even a cause for celebration for the human race, but it absolutely does not mean that anyone can do those things.

But if significantly more people tried to do those things, I'm sure some of them would beat those champions.

Re: Just Be Rich

#962

Post by science4sail »

llamataboot wrote: post #874
AlexandrB wrote: post #717

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I personally don't believe that an unskilled worker in the US deserves to be paid 10X what an equivalent worker in Bangladesh makes just because they were lucky enough to be born here. So you're saying we need a 100% estate tax? Because the same applies to those lucky enough to be born into rich families.

Yes, without getting into all the practicalities (and there are many deep dives into all of them), the general argument is go ahead and get rich off a mixture of your luck, work, and all the benefits that society collectively owns (well-educated workers, roads, etc etc etc) and enjoy it. Be a multi-millionaire. But after you die, whatever is left goes back into the common pool for all kids to have, for example, savin…

What about non-monetary inheritance? Even if rich kids don't inherit anything, they can still get advantages from parental connections, educational opportunities, genetics, etc.

Re: Just Be Rich

#963

Post by arcturus17 »

Mulpze15 wrote: post #207
baron816 wrote: post #58

Inequality by itself is not a bad thing. Let's start from there. If 90% of the population had a (sustainable) lifestyle of current dollar millionaires, and the remaining 10% had a (sustainable) lifestyle of dollar billionaires, there would be lots of inequality, but it wouldn't be problematic. Inequality is only bad if you're in a zero-sum game. The rich do have the power to extract rents and "rig the system" to ceme…

If you did not need to pay when you need healthcare, if education was free with equal opportunity, and everybody had enough to eat and a half decent place to live, I would entertain discussing this. You could have this today in the US, it exists elsewhere. Yes, it would probably cost a bit more for the wealthiest people. Until then, I believe we should not try to justify inequality based on irrealistic theoretical ar…

> Yes, it would probably cost a bit more for the wealthiest people.

No, at least in those places you mention, it costs more for the middle class. And I'm not sure it's just "a bit" - the difference in taxes between the US and the multiple European countries I've lived in is quite significant.

It's fine if you believe that's part of a fair social contract. I'm European and I do, mostly - I certainly want everyone to have access to quality education and healthcare. (It's some of the other public expenditure I despise... Public TV in this day and age, seriously?)

At any rate let's not pretend Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and Bezos can shoulder everyone's education in the US.

Re: Just Be Rich

#964

Post by camgunz »

nybble41 wrote: post #938
camgunz wrote: post #835

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just about QoL, income inequality corrupts political systems, which unravels everything else. It's also worth saying that a very easy way of increasing the QoL of those at the bottom is to take a tiny fraction from those at the top. And generally, people aren't talking about the average small business owner who makes $200k/yr profit. We're talking about people who have more than $50m in a big money vault. It…

> We're talking about people who have more than $50m in a big money vault. "Those at the top" don't generally have that much cash. They have shares in companies, often ones they started themselves, which happen to be worth a large amount on paper . If you wanted to distribute that in a form people could actually spend (not just moving shares around) you would have to liquidate the companies those shares represent. In…

This is the whole thing I wrote:

> And generally, people aren't talking about the average small business owner who makes $200k/yr profit. We're talking about people who have more than $50m in a big money vault. It's a straw man to replace people like pg with like, the people who run email octopus or your local credit union.

If you have a "small business" in your assets worth $49m, no worries! If you have one worth $50m, that'll be 2% please. This affects something like the richest 100,000 Americans, and they're not going to have to like, sell bricks out of the family's car wash business in order to pay it. They may spitefully lay people off or raise prices rather than pay out of their personal/business assets, but that's capitalism for you. I wouldn't blame taxes, I would blame jerks.

The amount of catastrophizing and backseat economizing around a wealth tax is super strange. Income and wealth inequality in the US is by all measures extremely high. 66% of Americans support a wealth tax, including 55% of Republicans. Does anyone really think it's better to have billionaires than universal health care?

Re: Just Be Rich

#965

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan »

TearsInTheRain wrote: post #942
rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #854

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I personally don't believe that an unskilled worker in the US deserves to be paid 10X... A full-time worker deserves to be paid enough to live, period. Unskilled or not. They deserve a roof over their head, food on the table, and basic healthcare. Cost of living varies greatly based on locale, and comparing that number to the poverty wage in Bangladesh is what the invisible hand does, yes, but it's absolutely not w…

> A full-time worker deserves to be paid enough to live, period. Even if "enough to live" is greater than the value they generate?

No - that type of job shouldn't exist. Automate them, offshore them, let the business models that depend on this type of exploitive labor fail. Eventually, this sort of job is going to disappear anyway.

If paired with robust social safety nets, we can absolutely require jobs to pay a living wage.

Re: Just Be Rich

#966

Post by rerbrerb »

PG is rich. Thanks for Hackers and Painters, written long ago, when he was thoughtful and championed the artistry required to write code well. Then Startup School, because he was a good dude, who truly wanted to help others. But since then, it’s all been about money. Such a pity to see folks with promise get their heads turned by, and then devote their lives to making, money. Wealth changes what people believe, and how they feel. Ask a rich man what’s wrong with the world, and you’re sure to hear about how, if only the poor folk would get their shit together, everybody could be as happy as him.

Re: Just Be Rich

#967

Post by marto1 »

px43 wrote: post #664
yarcob wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't a "housing shortage". The problem is that interest rates are so low, so everyone who has a bit of money on the side tries to invest in the real estate market. The result is that for every house thats sold, there isn't just someone who wants it as a living space, but also 5 people who want it as an investment. So 5 people outbid each other, the highest bidder gets it, and then the sucker who wanted t…

My brilliant* idea to solve the real estate problem is to tax the hell out of properties that are sitting empty. Something like a 2x or 3x multiplier on property taxes or something, especially in densely populated areas, and especially in areas where there is rampant housing insecurity. The tax needs to be greater than the potential gamble of waiting for occupants. This should be both for residential and commercial u…

> solve....is to tax

You won't solve sh*t. Just like the other gazillion times new taxes were introduced to solve something.

Well, I mean, unless your goal is to make the poor even poorer.

Re: Just Be Rich

#968

Post by richardwhiuk »

missedthecue wrote: post #85
peteretep wrote: post #9

> Of course the Gini coefficient is increasing. With more people starting more valuable companies, how could it not be? By taxing people properly?

Impossible. The Gini Coefficient is calculated on a pre-tax basis.

There is both a pre-tax and a post-tax GINI co-efficient - it's not fundamentally part of the co-efficient.

This is further complicated by taxing at source (e.g. if your employer had to pay tax prior to giving you your pay, that likely wouldn't be counted).

Different data sources use either the pre-tax or post-tax figures.

See Page 26 of http://documents1.worldbank.org/curated/en/59073146799250871...

Re: Just Be Rich

#969

Post by techsin101 »

Dracophoenix wrote: post #794
FlyingSnake wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is similar in vein to what DeliveryHero is doing in South and SE Asia. They closed shop in Europe once the regulations made it difficult to keep rider wages artificially low, and now majority of their operations are in the Developing world. The lax nature of regulations in Asia make it easier to do "naughty" things and move up the ladder.

Isn't doing it cheaper, faster, and better how most countries have risen to success since the industrial revolution? Regulations are a barrier to entry. Just because a government makes a regulation doesn't mean the reason behind is done with the best motives or outcomes in mind.

those laws are best for regular people, it's meaningless for country to be "rich" if only handful people are the rich ones in it.

Re: Just Be Rich

#970

Post by rkuykendall-com »

hit8run wrote: post #217

That's actually what I do the whole day. I give people good advice. I call myself a generous problem fixer. Yesterday a poor man was complaining that the steel company he worked for closed a few years ago and since then he did not get any job. I saved his life by telling him the following: "The solution to your problem is easy. Stop being poor and start being rich. You made a mistake by choosing to be poor so my seco…

Yzma: It is no concern of mine whether or not your family has... what was it again?

Peasant: Umm... food?

Yzma: Ha! You really should have thought of that before you became peasants!

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