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Great Vowel Shift

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Re: Great Vowel Shift

#21

Post by gxqoz »

anticristi wrote: post #15

Any non-native English speakers feeling like: So is that why we need to suffer a lingua franca that does not map 1:1 spoken and written? This must be the world's largest tech debt. :)))

John McWhorter has argued a few times on the Lexicon Valley podcast that although English has many problems (especially spelling), it's not a terrible lingua franca. Many complexities from other languages do not exist in it.

Obviously, any artificial language is going to be much simpler. But these have never caught on for a variety of reasons.

Re: Great Vowel Shift

#22

Post by ajuc »

gxqoz wrote: post #20
ngokevin wrote: post #16

Here's what it'd look like (taken from Reddit): "The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the European Union rather than German, which was the other possibility. As part of the negotiations, the British Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a 5- year phase-in plan that would become known as "Euro-English…

The Economist had a recent article on why spelling reform never really gains traction. Basically, those in power to change it have no incentive to do so: https://www.economist.com/books-and-arts/2021/04/10/why-its-...

But other languages (like Polish or German for example) have spelling reforms from time to time.

Re: Great Vowel Shift

#23

Post by automatoney »

For anyone wondering about the field that studies this sort of phenomenon, welcome to the wonderful field of historical linguistics!

Historical linguistics is a really cool intersection between anthropology and linguistics - in short the idea is we can look at languages around today and use certain well-founded assumptions about how languages change to understand the languages of the past; essentially the words we speak and sign today are the fossils of our linguistic history!

Suggested reading is Historical Linguistics by Lyle Campbell, and Language Files for a more general Linguistics textbook.

Re: Great Vowel Shift

#24

Post by keiferski »

gxqoz wrote: post #21
anticristi wrote: post #15

Any non-native English speakers feeling like: So is that why we need to suffer a lingua franca that does not map 1:1 spoken and written? This must be the world's largest tech debt. :)))

John McWhorter has argued a few times on the Lexicon Valley podcast that although English has many problems (especially spelling), it's not a terrible lingua franca. Many complexities from other languages do not exist in it. Obviously, any artificial language is going to be much simpler. But these have never caught on for a variety of reasons.

English is a great lingua franca IMO because of its inherent decentralization and willingness to accept new words. There is no academy regulating its use, as is the case with French and Spanish.

Re: Great Vowel Shift

#26

Post by uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh »

gxqoz wrote: post #21
anticristi wrote: post #15

Any non-native English speakers feeling like: So is that why we need to suffer a lingua franca that does not map 1:1 spoken and written? This must be the world's largest tech debt. :)))

John McWhorter has argued a few times on the Lexicon Valley podcast that although English has many problems (especially spelling), it's not a terrible lingua franca. Many complexities from other languages do not exist in it. Obviously, any artificial language is going to be much simpler. But these have never caught on for a variety of reasons.

Imagine the github issue tracker for the synthetic lingua franca. "Cannot express...", "ambiguity in..."

Re: Great Vowel Shift

#27

Post by dkdbejwi383 »

anticristi wrote: post #19
ngokevin wrote: post #16

Here's what it'd look like (taken from Reddit): "The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the European Union rather than German, which was the other possibility. As part of the negotiations, the British Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a 5- year phase-in plan that would become known as "Euro-English…

I dont vant tu teik saids, but German haz diklention und konjugation, vich maiks it a suboptimal lingua franka. Not tu mention meni iregular verbs. Mai vot gos tu som nordik languag like Svedish.

You're not going to get a lot of support here, unless you change your vote to Rust.

Re: Great Vowel Shift

#28

Post by anticristi »

ajuc wrote: post #22
gxqoz wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Economist had a recent article on why spelling reform never really gains traction. Basically, those in power to change it have no incentive to do so: https://www.economist.com/books-and-arts/2021/04/10/why-its-...

But other languages (like Polish or German for example) have spelling reforms from time to time.

Also Norwegian and Swedish.

Romania also had some spelling reform, albeit it was more motivated by a desire to distance itself from a communist past and not cleanup of tech debt.

Re: Great Vowel Shift

#29

Post by Eric_WVGG »

I used to have an English lit professor who could read and conversationally speak Old English. To my ears, it sounded like a Lord of the Rings style movie, or the Silmarillion come to life. Very musical in a sort of imaginary elvish kind of way.

Re: Great Vowel Shift

#30

Post by kaesar14 »

ajuc wrote: post #22
gxqoz wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Economist had a recent article on why spelling reform never really gains traction. Basically, those in power to change it have no incentive to do so: https://www.economist.com/books-and-arts/2021/04/10/why-its-...

But other languages (like Polish or German for example) have spelling reforms from time to time.

I think it's easier when there's a single polity that represents the "entirety" of that languages speaking community. Nobody controls English in the same way - I'd say the US and UK have equal claim to being able to formalize language changes, but good luck getting 2 billion people to follow them.
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