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EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry

reuters.com

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Re: EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry

#101

Post by tpm »

andy_ppp wrote: post #93
tpm wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Denmark reports AZ's serious blood clotting issue as up to 1:40'000. I will still get vaccinated with it if it's available in our country for me as I think the risk is worth it in my case. But if I was a woman under 60 and especially under 40 I would be hesitant to get vaccinated with AZ and probably wait for other vaccine.

Source?

"The Danish Health Authority said studies had shown a higher than expected frequency of blood clots following doses, affecting about one in 40,000 people."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56744474

Re: EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry

#102

Post by andylynch »

parhamn wrote: post #26

Does anyone know how reusable the mRNA infrastructure is in the future for other mRNA based solutions or is this stuff more one-off for COVID?

Very. Moderna's main focus is (or was) oncology; specifically personalized cancer vaccines.

Re: EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry

#103

Post by bluGill »

boringg wrote: post #55

Seems short sighted to me given we don't know efficacy against the variants. If I were in the contractual chair I'd keep all my options on the table, we aren't out of this yet. assuming this is true, as opposed to some kind of way to leverage better terms out of a deal

If I were the chair I'd be looking at how can I subsidize more mRNA production (the whole supply chain, lipids might be a better focus than mRNA itself) so that if variants are a problem we can get more vaccine fast. This will also scale to the net pandemic. This seems to be something close to what they are doing.

Right now adenovirus based vaccines as a rule seem like they need to go back to the lab for a few years.

I would keep options open to other vaccine technologies. There are others out there with some promise. I wouldn't expand on them yet - they haven't delivered, but I'd keep options open and would be ready to change if the real world conditions change.

Re: EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry

#105

Post by selectodude »

cm2187 wrote: post #98
shlant wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes you are correct that we don't really know until we know, but there is good reason to believe that mRNA vaccines are actually safer than traditional methods https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/multimedia-article/were-be... This seems to be at least partially supported by the current risks in regards to currently available non-mRNA vaccines (such as AZ). Also I'm not really sure what saying "we don't know the long te…

The conversation is about the respective merits of one vaccine over another. The fact that one is a new approach with no long term data on humans whether the other is a traditional approach is relevant.

J&J and AZ adenovirus-vector covid vaccines are highly novel vaccines that are very similar to mRNA vaccines, just with a different delivery mechanism.

Re: EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry

#106

Post by visarga »

marcinzm wrote: post #54
s_dev wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems incredible now the University of Pennsylvania told the inventor mRNA that their contributions weren't worthwhile and let them go. https://billypenn.com/2020/12/29/university-pennsylvania-cov... And now on social media they've done a full 180 and are acting as if it were their contribution to the world when the reality is quite different.

As I see it, the issue isn't with the University of Pennsylvania but with academia. Publish or perish. Get consistent grants or find a new job. The system isn't geared to promoting long term risky endeavors.

> The system isn't geared to promoting long term risky endeavors.

They made a mistake by trying to follow the obvious path towards progress, and the result proves how wrong they were. The path was deceptive and the straight direction was leading to detours.

This problem appears also in AI. Optimization only works when you can point to the solution. Evolution on the other hand can find these hidden stepping stones that initially don't appear useful, but it takes time.

In my opinion lots of the scientific research is just following the trends instead of finding these hidden stepping stones. Only very few are committed to searching so far from the beaten road.

Re: EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry

#107

Post by bluGill »

elliekelly wrote: post #10
tertius wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ending a contract would encourage them to do more R&D for more future contracts. Don't subsidize drugs/vaccines that don't work. There are 100+ vaccines being worked on. We're fine.

> Don't subsidize drugs/vaccines that don't work. Why not? Funding vaccine research seems a worthy endeavor even if some of the research doesn’t pan out. The end result doesn’t need to be an immediately usable vaccine in order for the time & money spent to be worthwhile. Even a completely failed vaccine project could yield a piece of information that helps ensure the next project doesn’t fail.

There are different levels of research. Right not Adrenovirus vaccines need to go back to the lab and figure out this clotting issue. Maybe they can, maybe they can't, either way this is a basic research question that needs only a tiny amount of research money. More importantly, that money needs to be spread over a few years.

Most of the vast amounts of research funding given isn't really research, it is scaling up production - a much harder problem that needs much more money. Since we now know of some issues (that would be very hard to find before a large scale roll out - lets not put undeserved fault on anyone here) the labs can focus on them.

Re: EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry

#108

Post by [deleted] »

seriousquestion wrote: post #96
zarkov99 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about all the other people who did not get covid but also stayed home? Shouldn't they all be complaining about fatigue and brain fog? Come on.

They do, and would if asked! Question: Do you feel more fatigued over the past year? Common Answer: Yes. Question: Are you having a harder time concentrating or focusing? Common Answer: Yes.

[deleted]

Re: EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry

#109

Post by bluGill »

hef19898 wrote: post #29
kube-system wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s fairly common for private businesses like pharmacies/clinics/hospitals to have vaccines in much of the world, no?

And you can walk in there and buy it like, say, a bottle of oke? Not without going through a doctor before hand, the same doctor who administers the shot after you picked it up at the pharmacy.

Here I walk into a pharmacy and say I want a vaccine. They do some paperwork and give it to me. No doctor visit required.

My doctor can give me a vaccine, but it has been a long time since I got mine there. I generally the pharmacy because they give me a discount on some sort of item I'd buy anyway.

Re: EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry

#110

Post by detritus »

foepys wrote: post #81
djbebs wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure the EU paid around the same price as the US

The EU could've issued an export ban for Covid vaccines like the US and UK did but did not want to. There would have been 34 million more doses available until the end of March if they had done it. But even in these times, the EU rather supports their allies than revert to nationalism. It could pay dividends in the future.

The UK has a vaccine export ban in place?

"Let me be clear: we have not blocked the export of a single covid-19 vaccine or vaccine components." - Boris Johnson

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2021-03-10/debates/8A8...

The UK has certainly sent a few hundred thousand to Australia - they even did it 'on the quiet' so as not to enrage the frothing tabloid classes.

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