Coinbase from YC to DPO • Hacker News Board

Re: Coinbase from YC to DPO

#41

Post by Fede_V » Wed, Apr 14, 2021, 4:01 PM UTC

unreal37 wrote: post #38

Fede_V wrote: post #35

I'm horrendously worried about crypto gaining more marketshare as long as proof of work crypto remains mainstream. It has significantly worse externalities than just about any company I can think of (including defense contractors/vaping companies), and, if it grows larger before we have clean energy, then we virtually guarantee we won't be able to tackle global warming. We are going to bestow a world that will be sig…

What do you think about computers that are always on 24/7? Or TVs that never turn off (even if the screen is off)? (ETA: 23% of household energy use is by always-on devices. The scale of this waste is MASSIVE.) Devices in our life consume energy 24/7 when we're not even using them or needing them to be on. Energy conservation has a LONG way to go. In fact, one could argue that the current stock market system is a hug…

We should do a much better job of building energy efficient devices, but, the amount of energy that's "wasted" by things like TVs that never turned off is really tiny compared to the energy footprint of the crypto ecosystem.

Further, I worry that crypto will grow massively. If that happens, all bets are off. In its current state, crypto consumes more energy than several large countries - imagine a world where that's 10x or 100x and we've still not moved off of proof of work. What's global warming going to look like?

Re: Coinbase from YC to DPO

#42

Post by JohnJamesRambo » Wed, Apr 14, 2021, 4:01 PM UTC

Fede_V wrote: post #35

I'm horrendously worried about crypto gaining more marketshare as long as proof of work crypto remains mainstream. It has significantly worse externalities than just about any company I can think of (including defense contractors/vaping companies), and, if it grows larger before we have clean energy, then we virtually guarantee we won't be able to tackle global warming. We are going to bestow a world that will be sig…

Proof of stake is here in Ethereum 2.0 and it works great. Invest in that because this is the last hurrah for Bitcoin. The next cycle will be the “Ethereum is the new better Bitcoin” cycle. I say that as someone with almost all my net worth in Bitcoin but it has miserable transaction speed and energy usage. History has shown us that not innovating has never worked out for any company I can think of.

Re: Coinbase from YC to DPO

#43

Post by bko » Wed, Apr 14, 2021, 4:01 PM UTC

Fede_V wrote: post #35

I'm horrendously worried about crypto gaining more marketshare as long as proof of work crypto remains mainstream. It has significantly worse externalities than just about any company I can think of (including defense contractors/vaping companies), and, if it grows larger before we have clean energy, then we virtually guarantee we won't be able to tackle global warming. We are going to bestow a world that will be sig…

Bitcoin allows you to convert excess energy into money. Because it can be mined anywhere at any time, it's priced to the global low cost of energy. It doesn't make sense to use expensive energy sources.

Much of energy production is meant to meet peak demand and storage is difficult. Bitcoin mining is a great way to monetize energy that has a low market value and would likely go to waste.

If you want to price energy or put a tax, by all means. But you shouldn't discriminate against particular usages of energy. You're angry at the wrong thing

Re: Coinbase from YC to DPO

#44

Post by unreal37 » Wed, Apr 14, 2021, 4:02 PM UTC

skybrian wrote: post #11

Well, “direct listing” apparently. I don’t think that counts as an IPO since there’s no offering? It seems not to be trading yet, or at least Google and Yahoo don’t have it.

"early afternoon" is when people expect the first trades to hit.

Re: Coinbase from YC to DPO

#45

Post by Tenoke » Wed, Apr 14, 2021, 4:02 PM UTC

Fede_V wrote: post #35

I'm horrendously worried about crypto gaining more marketshare as long as proof of work crypto remains mainstream. It has significantly worse externalities than just about any company I can think of (including defense contractors/vaping companies), and, if it grows larger before we have clean energy, then we virtually guarantee we won't be able to tackle global warming. We are going to bestow a world that will be sig…

>I'm horrendously worried about crypto gaining more marketshare as long as proof of work crypto remains mainstream.

It's not really remaining mainstream. Bitcoin is soon going to be the only big project (in terms of electricity used) with it. The industry as a whole is moving away from it quite fast at this rate, with ETH (second biggest) moving to PoS within a year, and almost every new project being a or on a non-PoW chain.

Re: Coinbase from YC to DPO

#46

Post by PragmaticPulp » Wed, Apr 14, 2021, 4:02 PM UTC

unreal37 wrote: post #38

Fede_V wrote: post #35

I'm horrendously worried about crypto gaining more marketshare as long as proof of work crypto remains mainstream. It has significantly worse externalities than just about any company I can think of (including defense contractors/vaping companies), and, if it grows larger before we have clean energy, then we virtually guarantee we won't be able to tackle global warming. We are going to bestow a world that will be sig…

What do you think about computers that are always on 24/7? Or TVs that never turn off (even if the screen is off)? (ETA: 23% of household energy use is by always-on devices. The scale of this waste is MASSIVE.) Devices in our life consume energy 24/7 when we're not even using them or needing them to be on. Energy conservation has a LONG way to go. In fact, one could argue that the current stock market system is a hug…

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Yes, unnecessary energy waste of other devices is bad and should be reduced. Fortunately, we're making strides to reduce electronics inefficiency all of the time.

Proof-of-work cryptocurrencies are uniquely bad because they become less efficient with each additional miner. The maximum number of Bitcoin transactions was the same a decade ago as it is now, but the energy consumption is many orders of magnitude higher and continues to increase.

When someone adds an additional server to a server rack or buys a new laptop, we also get a net increase in value. The new technology is likely to be more efficient, so we get a net increase in efficiency. Proof-of-work is the only technology that gets worse and worse over time, and literally pays people to continue making it worse.

Re: Coinbase from YC to DPO

#47

Post by New_California » Wed, Apr 14, 2021, 4:03 PM UTC

Fede_V wrote: post #35

I'm horrendously worried about crypto gaining more marketshare as long as proof of work crypto remains mainstream. It has significantly worse externalities than just about any company I can think of (including defense contractors/vaping companies), and, if it grows larger before we have clean energy, then we virtually guarantee we won't be able to tackle global warming. We are going to bestow a world that will be sig…

Re: Coinbase from YC to DPO

#48

Post by Fede_V » Wed, Apr 14, 2021, 4:03 PM UTC

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #42

Fede_V wrote: post #35

I'm horrendously worried about crypto gaining more marketshare as long as proof of work crypto remains mainstream. It has significantly worse externalities than just about any company I can think of (including defense contractors/vaping companies), and, if it grows larger before we have clean energy, then we virtually guarantee we won't be able to tackle global warming. We are going to bestow a world that will be sig…

Proof of stake is here in Ethereum 2.0 and it works great. Invest in that because this is the last hurrah for Bitcoin. The next cycle will be the “Ethereum is the new better Bitcoin” cycle. I say that as someone with almost all my net worth in Bitcoin but it has miserable transaction speed and energy usage. History has shown us that not innovating has never worked out for any company I can think of.

I've been reading a few of the white papers about this, but I'd absolutely love to go deeper in this. Do you have any suggestions?

I am especially interested in assessment about CO2 emissions from credible sources (please, no VCs with zero training in physical sciences posting thought leadership pieces, I beg you).

Re: Coinbase from YC to DPO

#49

Post by BobbyJo » Wed, Apr 14, 2021, 4:03 PM UTC

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #42

Fede_V wrote: post #35

I'm horrendously worried about crypto gaining more marketshare as long as proof of work crypto remains mainstream. It has significantly worse externalities than just about any company I can think of (including defense contractors/vaping companies), and, if it grows larger before we have clean energy, then we virtually guarantee we won't be able to tackle global warming. We are going to bestow a world that will be sig…

Proof of stake is here in Ethereum 2.0 and it works great. Invest in that because this is the last hurrah for Bitcoin. The next cycle will be the “Ethereum is the new better Bitcoin” cycle. I say that as someone with almost all my net worth in Bitcoin but it has miserable transaction speed and energy usage. History has shown us that not innovating has never worked out for any company I can think of.

Maybe I'm a huge cynic, it certainly wouldn't surpris me, but I think the people pumping up crypto this cycle aren't necessarily the kind that care about the difference. If anything they'll stay away from ETH because it lacks a long term cap.

Re: Coinbase from YC to DPO

#50

Post by unreal37 » Wed, Apr 14, 2021, 4:03 PM UTC

nojito wrote: post #34

You would think they would raise for BTC/Cryptos instead of USD via IPO. Really says a lot of their faith in Crypto's future.

That's a disingenuous argument.

Just because you won't accept your salary in Euros, doesn't mean you don't have faith in the future of it.