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EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry

reuters.com

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Re: EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry

#61

Post by ericb »

seriousquestion wrote: post #58
jleyank wrote: post #36

Probably every drug has risks, many higher than the 1:1,000,000 reported for AZ/J&J. It's always a balance between the risk untreated vs. treated - many cancer drugs will kill you, but slower than they kill the cancer. Contraceptives have various issues, but their "social good" is deemed worthwhile. I've read that they are doing gene analysis to try and determine why these cases appear - is it gender, age, cross-reac…

Long Covid is mostly self reported vague symptoms, namely fatigue and brain fog. It's what happens when you stay at home too much and don't get enough exercise and have a poor diet. Isolation? The Covid 15* that many of us packed on? You will feel worse and especially more fatigued, no doubt. Not to mention being constantly immersed in an environment of fear. It's a misattribution to associate side effects of weight…

Source?

Yesterday I met a woman whose husband has lost his sense of smell for 4+ months and still has not regained it. My lungs still hurt sometimes on deep breaths 6 months later.

Re: EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry

#62

Post by physicsguy »

jleyank wrote: post #36

Probably every drug has risks, many higher than the 1:1,000,000 reported for AZ/J&J. It's always a balance between the risk untreated vs. treated - many cancer drugs will kill you, but slower than they kill the cancer. Contraceptives have various issues, but their "social good" is deemed worthwhile. I've read that they are doing gene analysis to try and determine why these cases appear - is it gender, age, cross-reac…

On top of that, we wouldn't even yet know if there were any long term side effects from Pfizer, etc.

Re: EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry

#63

Post by krzyk »

thu2111 wrote: post #30
tertius wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ending a contract would encourage them to do more R&D for more future contracts. Don't subsidize drugs/vaccines that don't work. There are 100+ vaccines being worked on. We're fine.

But AstraZeneca does work. The idea it doesn't is a fiction peddled by French and German political leaders, it's not based in science.

It works, but has inferior efficacy compared to mRNA vaccines. Same for J&J.

If you have a choice, why get AZ? More over second shot is 3 months away, for mRNA it is at most 42 days away.

J&J has one shot, that has efficacy lower event than AZ.

US is vaccinated mostly using mRNA (because AZ took long to approve and J&J came at that time, but is now blocked).

In my country we have the most amount of Pfizer vaccine, AZ screwed us and didn't deliver so why bother with almost non-existent vaccine that has lower efficacy?

J&J delivered todays some vaccines, but I assume it won't do it anymore as it waits to see what happens with clothing.

Re: EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry

#64

Post by estaseuropano »

Pick-A-Hill2019 wrote: post #2

Seems rather short sighted in my opinion given that the current scientific consensus is that Covid will become a seasonal thing as it mutates which means that booster shots will probably be needed. Given that amount of R&D funds that the two companies have put in I would imagine they would be reluctant to join in efforts to produce a vaccination for future variations.

Its a false report, so no worries (see other comment thread)

Re: EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry

#65

Post by tubularhells »

gnfargbl wrote: post #57
boringg wrote: post #55

Seems short sighted to me given we don't know efficacy against the variants. If I were in the contractual chair I'd keep all my options on the table, we aren't out of this yet. assuming this is true, as opposed to some kind of way to leverage better terms out of a deal

The EU was slow off the mark when it came to ordering vaccines and as a result it did not get priority for deliveries. The EU can't change that now, but it can send the manufacturers a message warning of the dangers of not showing fealty. Perhaps I'm cynical, but I do wonder if this decision is more politics than science.

They have to show force. Money speaks.

Re: EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry

#66

Post by estaseuropano »

refraincomment wrote: post #7

Good. But at the same time it should be possible to buy through private channels. So we can circumvent and get rid of the terribly inefficient bureaucrats.

Eu paid just a few euro per dose with other countries (and certainly individuals) paying 20x as much. Seems they are not so inefficient after all..

Re: EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry

#67

Post by rossdavidh »

Even if true (and apparently some German officials are saying it isn't), the contracts go through the end of 2021 is my understanding, so that makes these announcements a bit less significant than the headlines suggests.

To be honest, it seems like there is an argument to be made that the rich countries _should_ stop buying the J&J and AZ vaccines, except perhaps to donate to poorer countries, because the mRNA vaccines are much more challenging for poorer countries to use (multiple doses, refrigeration more challenging). I wonder if the focus on (very rare) side effects is part of an effort to lay the groundwork for doing that without a huge backlash from rich country citizens.

Re: EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry

#68

Post by krzyk »

gnfargbl wrote: post #32
tertius wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ending a contract would encourage them to do more R&D for more future contracts. Don't subsidize drugs/vaccines that don't work. There are 100+ vaccines being worked on. We're fine.

> Don't subsidize drugs/vaccines that don't work. Both AZ and J&J have been proven effective. They clearly work. It might not be politically expedient for the EU Commission to emphasize that fact, but it is true nevertheless.

They work, but at least AZ is working hard to NOT deliver vaccines to EU. (and sending those manufactured in EU to the UK).

Remember when Italians found 15M vaccines at the factory? I don't know why AZ representatives aren't prosecuted for such behavior of the company.

So I think it is a good call to wait for the contract to end.

BTW. Work at ~72%, mRNAs are at ~91%. What would you choose if you had both at the table? And what would you choose if you have the 91% at the table and 72% one in the other room?

Re: EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry

#69

Post by djbebs »

estaseuropano wrote: post #66
refraincomment wrote: post #7

Good. But at the same time it should be possible to buy through private channels. So we can circumvent and get rid of the terribly inefficient bureaucrats.

Eu paid just a few euro per dose with other countries (and certainly individuals) paying 20x as much. Seems they are not so inefficient after all..

Pretty sure the EU paid around the same price as the US

Re: EU Commission to end AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine contracts at expiry

#70

Post by quantgenius »

jleyank wrote: post #36

Probably every drug has risks, many higher than the 1:1,000,000 reported for AZ/J&J. It's always a balance between the risk untreated vs. treated - many cancer drugs will kill you, but slower than they kill the cancer. Contraceptives have various issues, but their "social good" is deemed worthwhile. I've read that they are doing gene analysis to try and determine why these cases appear - is it gender, age, cross-reac…

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