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System76 Developing “Cosmic” Desktop Environment

blog.system76.com

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Re: System76 Developing “Cosmic” Desktop Environment

#381
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean?

Bulky, low res screen, design suggests that it relies heavily on active cooling, looks cheap and plasticy even in the marketing photos. I wouldn't buy this if it was 10x faster than a Macbook Air.

Also accessible for maintenance; you get the service manual with purchase; they actually bother writing the manual, and the support line isn't half bad.

Hate to break it to ya' but just chucking a chip into a gigantic heatsink of a frame, and relying on one or two USB-C ports to support gigantic networks of peripherals through a powered hub (sold seperately) which has issues running multiple added on monitors because the HDMI over USB-C tends to put off EMI in the 2.4 GHz band is honestly a step backwards compared to the characteristics you complain about. My old MBP would kill it's own network connection trying to drive large smart TV's through it's USB-C ports; and constantly stall handling all the input demands as I'd end up outtyping the capability of the processor to context switch on a typical programmer/scripter workload. Not had an issue one with System76's older school design approach to things like the Serval (whose battery life is abysmal comparatively, but I knew that going in. It's a workstation.)

System76 isn't out to build dispose-a-systems or systems that can only be swapped back through them on warranty. These are systems intended to be user serviced. That means thicker. You have to account for fasteners, less/no glue, stay away from over-using overly brittle plastic bezels that break at the drop of a hat, more room for connectors, so soldering labs aren't required for swapping out or adding RAM/SSD's... More generous tolerances for hand room, ergonomic motherboard and keyboard layouts. I can trust my system more, because I can actually take care of it.

Compared to my old VAIO Z Series, which I love dearly to this day, but which I always crack open with fear and trepidation because of the over-reliance on FPC's, System76 stuff is a breath of fresh air for me. I'd prefer an XFCE derivative desktop over GNOME, but eh. I'll live.

I didn't have to go hunting all over the Net for years for an unofficial community driver that actually gets me passed the most recently updated by manufacturer driver from 2012 for the Nvidia GT 630M/Intel IHD kludge, I don't as a consequence have to run with Driver Signature Enforcement off, and hardly ever update, I don't have to worry about FPC's breaking or put up with software remapping two keys on the keyboard in software because it's easier than risking screwing something up while disassembling the whole bloody laptop to get to the keyboard and mobo so I can reseat the ribbon connector in the hopes of a more solid connection reviving the bloody. No longer functioning keys.

Heck. I ended up able to find my way through troubleshooting their initial setup tool after making my own life more difficult than it needed to be on OS setup bbecause I wanted to understand how the machine worked from boot to userspace.

Something I still have zilch insight into with Macs.

So... Different strokes I guess?

Re: System76 Developing “Cosmic” Desktop Environment

#382
post #359

I’m sure another new desktop environment will be the key to ensure this’ll finally be the year of desktop Linux. The amount of fragmentation in Linux desktop environments, window managers, etc. is amazing.

The fragmentation is one thing, but it's the way each variation is really just subtly different from several other variations that exemplifies what Linux has become. This is supposed to be the OS of composability, why are DEs so inflexible that you need so many bespoke variations?

Re: System76 Developing “Cosmic” Desktop Environment

#384
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bulky, low res screen, design suggests that it relies heavily on active cooling, looks cheap and plasticy even in the marketing photos. I wouldn't buy this if it was 10x faster than a Macbook Air.

Interestingly, I have opposite preferences. I never had a Macbook Air, and I would not buy one regardless on the price because I don't like the design. > Bulky Often a sign of user-replaceable RAM and SSD, which is good. I don't mind if it adds a few millimeters to the thickness. > low res screen 1920x1080 is enough resolution for a 13" laptop. > design suggests that it relies heavily on active cooling I don't want p…

>I don't want passively cooled computers, I want fast ones.

Ok, but then why are we even making comparisons with M1 laptops? The M1 is a low TDP chip designed to be used in devices with minimal or no active cooling. Apple will no doubt be bringing out beefier chips for its higher end laptops in due course.

Re: System76 Developing “Cosmic” Desktop Environment

#385
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, M1's win is more in locking up TSMC's 5nm supply than its genius design. AMD has been struggling to get their slice of TSMC 7nm capacity.

AMDs chip peaks at 4.4GHz vs 3.2GHz. Together they imply 30-40% better IPC. 5nm only offers 15% better performance OR 30% lower power consumption vs 7nm. In truth though, the A14 design isn’t too much faster than A13 or even A12 despite them being 7nm. Most of its advancements were from clock ramps. I wonder if the hardware layer for x86 kept a lot of resources tied up on that instead of advancing the architecture pe…

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but comparing clock speeds cross-manufacturer and especially cross-architecture doesn't really make much sense, right?

As far as I understand it, just because AMD and Intel chips are in the 5GHz range doesn't mean it is realistic to assume that Apple could also scale M1 up to that frequency so looking at just frequency or just IPC mean next to nothing. We pretty much have to resort to frequency x IPC i.e. benchmarks to gauge the relative difference.

You're right that M1/A14 perf jump is relatively small and seems to effectively be a port of A13 to 5nm in terms of core design, so if we wanted to guess at AMD's perf at 5nm we could try to use that as a yard stick.

I remember seeing someone do the benchmarks on that but I can't seem to find it now. He lowered ryzen 5000s wattage to match M1 with an offset to account for 7nm vs. 5nm and found that AMD was still behind in perf/w but by something like 20-30%. I'll keep looking to see if I can find it.

Edit: Found it: https://old.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/k3nbn3/psa_performance...

He arrives at the M1 having a 1.23x perf/w advantage in Cinebench when accounting for 7nm vs. 5nm. Without that it has a 1.34x advantage. Note that this is measuring the core directly. Ryzen's IO die is a huge power sucker so this really shouldn't be used to decide what laptop to buy or whatever, it's just a peek into how close their core architectures are to each other.

Re: System76 Developing “Cosmic” Desktop Environment

#387
post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, I have opposite preferences. I never had a Macbook Air, and I would not buy one regardless on the price because I don't like the design. > Bulky Often a sign of user-replaceable RAM and SSD, which is good. I don't mind if it adds a few millimeters to the thickness. > low res screen 1920x1080 is enough resolution for a 13" laptop. > design suggests that it relies heavily on active cooling I don't want p…

>I don't want passively cooled computers, I want fast ones. Ok, but then why are we even making comparisons with M1 laptops? The M1 is a low TDP chip designed to be used in devices with minimal or no active cooling. Apple will no doubt be bringing out beefier chips for its higher end laptops in due course.

M1 CPU consumes up to 30W of electricity. That’s impossible to do with minimal or no active cooling. Instead of designing good cooling, Apple does aggressive thermal throttling.

The problem is not specific to Apple, many other companies are offering ultra-thin laptops with similar tradeoff.

As a consumer, I don’t like that tradeoff. I’m already paying for a fast CPU. Yet due to the lack of a proper fan assembly (a low-tech and cheap component, compared to CPU) I’m only able to get good performance for brief periods of time. While usually that’s OK, sometimes I want sustained performance for minutes or hours, even on a laptop.

Re: System76 Developing “Cosmic” Desktop Environment

#388
post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't want passively cooled computers, I want fast ones. Ok, but then why are we even making comparisons with M1 laptops? The M1 is a low TDP chip designed to be used in devices with minimal or no active cooling. Apple will no doubt be bringing out beefier chips for its higher end laptops in due course.

M1 CPU consumes up to 30W of electricity. That’s impossible to do with minimal or no active cooling. Instead of designing good cooling, Apple does aggressive thermal throttling. The problem is not specific to Apple, many other companies are offering ultra-thin laptops with similar tradeoff. As a consumer, I don’t like that tradeoff. I’m already paying for a fast CPU. Yet due to the lack of a proper fan assembly (a lo…

The M1 Macbook Pro has active cooling, if that's important to you as a matter of principle. However, real world tests show that the performance gains from actively cooling the M1 are pretty marginal.

More broadly, it seems that you prioritize performance over everything else when it comes to laptops. Apple doesn't – especially not in its 13" range. What they are providing is a small form factor with crazy good battery life and performance that's more than good enough for most people.

Thermal throttling is not inherently a bad thing – it's a sign of a balanced design. If you have a fixed amount of thermal headroom to play with, then you want a processor that uses more power at peak loads than you can dissipate (so that you can take full advantage of the cooling off periods provided by non-peak usage).

Re: System76 Developing “Cosmic” Desktop Environment

#390
post #86
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my biggest missing feature from the Mac. Do any of the major GUI toolkits for linux support this?

MacOS sort of supports it - the help menu for each app has a search box CMD+Shift+/ (or CMD+? If you prefer to think of it like that) will open it up. Each of the menu bar options should be searchable, and the search box will open the requisite menu to the correct branch/leaf and highlight it for you.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I know the Mac has it, I was asking if there is a similar feature on linux.
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