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Lambda School is a predatory bootcamp that lies about students outcomes

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Re: Lambda School is a predatory bootcamp that lies about students outcomes

#71

Post by cupofcoffee »

agd wrote: post #35

As someone who used to work in this industry, I'm kind of torn on Lambda School. It's clear that Austen lied in the past about outcomes and the company perhaps preferred growth over customer experience early on. However college education is so broken in the US that any alternative can look good in comparison. Long term I'm bullish on Lambda, they're in a rapidly growing market, signing good partnerships like this, an…

Why is college education broken in the US? If one is doing a STEM degree then they can earn enough salary to pay for their loans and live happily ever after.

Isn't the issue when either international students come and invest thousands of dollars in university fees and are then unceremoniously kicked out of the country or students which study some field which has no high employability?

Re: Lambda School is a predatory bootcamp that lies about students outcomes

#72

Post by sjg007 »

sugarwater wrote: post #69
austenallred wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't how any of this works. There has been a constant allegation that Lambda School sells its ISAs and therefore no longer has incentives that are aligned with students. The assertion is that, in “Big Short” style, we sell off all the risk of our students being placed to someone else and don’t have to care about outcomes. Nothing could be further from the truth. When Lambda School finances ISAs here’s how it wo…

After Lambda School completely removed code review, grading, attendance, TLs when I was enrolled... I just couldn't see how the incentives were aligned anymore. There was no one looking at my assignments, my assessments, my projects and telling me what I got wrong and how I could do better. Those choices made by Lambda only hurt students' learning and therefore chances to get a job. And when students complained, the…

Pair programming is the best way to learn so that's unfortunate.

Re: Lambda School is a predatory bootcamp that lies about students outcomes

#74

Post by beckman466 »

beckman466 wrote: post #49
FlyingSnake wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Colleges are predatory I see this argument all the time when such predatory bootcamps are brought up. Firstly Universities, notwithstanding their shortcomings, have a long history going back to millennia. Their importance in human history is unparalleled. While some US American universities have turned into debt traps, it's not the same case universally. It is unfair to compare these predatory bootcamps with univer…

> Firstly Universities, notwithstanding their shortcomings, have a long history going back to millennia. Their importance in human history is unparalleled. Capitalist academia is an essential part of empire. Although claimed as the opposite (“Die Luft der Freiheit weht”), capitalist academia often blocks the diffusion of innovation by commoditizing and monopolizing new advancements in science and technology, and work…

> In other words: Silicon Valley mythology is making us pay for technology two times. The first time through tax by the capitalist state, and the second time we are paying through economic rents/taxes levied by the capitalist state on behalf of capitalist firms [4].

to be clearer, it should be:

In other words: Silicon Valley mythology is making us pay for technology two times. The first time through taxpayer money going to the funding of universities as well as being used as grants and low interest loans to promising young startup companies, and the second time we are paying through economic rents/taxes levied by the capitalist state on behalf of capitalist firms [4] (through IP laws).*

-

also i meant another link for [3], it should be: https://marianamazzucato.com/books/the-entrepreneurial-state

-

that is the* immeasurable inheritance left behind by our ancestors

Re: Lambda School is a predatory bootcamp that lies about students outcomes

#75

Post by sandofsky »

austenallred wrote: post #52
sandofsky wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Colleges are predatory, putting kids deep into debt that they may never be able to repay and can't even remove with bankruptcy. We're not talking about colleges. The fact other scams exist in the world has zero bearing on whether one specific company is scamming people. > Whereas Lambda aligns their interests with the student. They align themselves with their investors. That's their fiduciary duty. If you want to u…

That isn't how any of this works. There has been a constant allegation that Lambda School sells its ISAs and therefore no longer has incentives that are aligned with students. The assertion is that, in “Big Short” style, we sell off all the risk of our students being placed to someone else and don’t have to care about outcomes. Nothing could be further from the truth. When Lambda School finances ISAs here’s how it wo…

The original poster said, "If their students don't get a job, Lambda doesn't get paid." Absolutely nothing in your reply changes the fact Lambda is paid before the student gets a job.

You're trying to change the topic to something you can wiggle through, and I refuse to engage. You were caught on tape lying about this, and I have no reason to believe you've stopped lying. https://soundcloud.com/vwoo/interview-with-austen-allred

Re: Lambda School is a predatory bootcamp that lies about students outcomes

#76

Post by finiteseries »

Tarsul wrote: post #66
barry-cotter wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forty four percent of the workforce earns less than two thirds of the median male wage is devastating? There are hundreds of millions of people who live on less than $2 a day. The US has the highest average household consumption in the world by a very large margin. If you think US living standards are inadequate the rest of the world is much, much worse.

if the US starts to orient itself after third world countries, then you're correct: It's really going good. It's all relative. I thought the US would rather compare itself to Europe, Japan, etc. but okay.

To be clear, when using something like household consumption expenditure, Japan and the subset of European countries that match up end up looking quite “poor” and have been for some time, with the gap IIRC increasing.

That e.g. personal health costs are included in there obviously, uh, muddies things.

Re: Lambda School is a predatory bootcamp that lies about students outcomes

#77

Post by odshoifsdhfs »

sjg007 wrote: post #72
sugarwater wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After Lambda School completely removed code review, grading, attendance, TLs when I was enrolled... I just couldn't see how the incentives were aligned anymore. There was no one looking at my assignments, my assessments, my projects and telling me what I got wrong and how I could do better. Those choices made by Lambda only hurt students' learning and therefore chances to get a job. And when students complained, the…

Pair programming is the best way to learn so that's unfortunate.

I wish people would stop saying things like this. Nothing against you, but no, pair programming is not the best way to learn. There are various learning styles and people fall in diverse ways to learn best. I hate visual and social learning. Just doesn't work for me. Youtube videos and pair programming is just the worst thing you can do for me if you want me to retain any information. While some say there is 8, others 4, others 6, (mainly some divide some items in 2 vs 1), people are different and learn in different ways. Heck, just the amount of teaching styles/methods should be a good hint that there is no size fits all when it comes to learning.

Source: Childhood education degree + years of researching the topic.

Re: Lambda School is a predatory bootcamp that lies about students outcomes

#78

Post by ibeckermayer »

austenallred wrote: post #53
smegma2 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it surprising that they sell their ISAs (it seems to be true based on a quick look at this https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/12/21135134/lambda-school-st... ). Doesn't this look bad to prospective students? It implies that they don't think that they'll pay off. Is there a good faith explanation for this?

The cash to train students needs to come from somewhere. So in Lambda School's case that's either VCs or some other investors. Instead of running the entire school on venture capital, which wouldn't make sense (VCs need a huge return per dollar), we use an advance from investors based on the future value of an ISA to offset the cost. If we work with investors to say that an ISA will be worth $x, we can borrow $x minu…

You seem to be implying that you’re borrowing against the ISAs whereas the article claims you’re selling them.

Re: Lambda School is a predatory bootcamp that lies about students outcomes

#79

Post by Jasper_ »

austenallred wrote: post #53
smegma2 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it surprising that they sell their ISAs (it seems to be true based on a quick look at this https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/12/21135134/lambda-school-st... ). Doesn't this look bad to prospective students? It implies that they don't think that they'll pay off. Is there a good faith explanation for this?

The cash to train students needs to come from somewhere. So in Lambda School's case that's either VCs or some other investors. Instead of running the entire school on venture capital, which wouldn't make sense (VCs need a huge return per dollar), we use an advance from investors based on the future value of an ISA to offset the cost. If we work with investors to say that an ISA will be worth $x, we can borrow $x minu…

Doesn't that incentivize you to graduate as many students as possible, even poor quality ones, so that you can recoup the costs of as many past ISAs as possible and sell them off quickly?

Otherwise, how does a student that doesn't land a job and whose ISA will never repay fit into this model?

Re: Lambda School is a predatory bootcamp that lies about students outcomes

#80

Post by Jasper_ »

ec109685 wrote: post #13
smegma2 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it surprising that they sell their ISAs (it seems to be true based on a quick look at this https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/12/21135134/lambda-school-st... ). Doesn't this look bad to prospective students? It implies that they don't think that they'll pay off. Is there a good faith explanation for this?

I think the charitable explanation is that they needed the funds now versus after the student gets their job.

So they're incentivized to inflate their graduation rates to sell off the ISAs to investors who don't know better, since they need the cash now. Investors are left with a bill of goods: ISAs that will never pay out. Add in some securitization and tranches and baby, you've got a 2008 financial crisis goin'!
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