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WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

androidpolice.com

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Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#131

Post by jeltz »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #123
skrebbel wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument is "this app, which promises privacy and security in ways I do not have the skills to verify, is made by people who also think cryptocurrencies are a good idea". That is a pretty compelling argument to people who think cryptocurrencies are all about scams and/or useless pollution (a sizeable portion of society). It suggests that the people behind Signal may not be as trustworthy as they're made out to be…

> It suggests that the people behind Signal may not be as trustworthy as they're made out to be. trust only works in retrospect (it can't be extended into the future to a party simply because they make a promise) all such relationships have an expiry date (since as the trusted party evolves or needs to reinvent itself to satisfy shareholders). what can prevent this are bullet-proof contracts (that's not how people ma…

Not everybody. The people who donated to the project owes Moxie not using their money to get rich off a pump and dump scheme.

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#132

Post by mtgx »

kelnos wrote: post #59
godelski wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I talk to my friends, parents, and family about it a lot. They don't understand it, but they do care. Problem is that they don't understand how to fight back. They do not want to give up on Facebook. They also are afraid to switch to a service like Signal because "no one is there." So I think they care, but there's a big sense of helplessness. Honestly that's why I like projects like Signal. There's no way I can get…

> They also are afraid to switch to a service like Signal because "no one is there." I've been thinking about this a bit, and I'm going to stop short of asking people to switch, and just try to get them to install it (and maybe even get them to casually suggest their friends do the same, if the opportunity arises). It's a hopefully small, risk-free step to take, and the more people that have installs, the more likely…

Just tell them to use it as the default SMS app. Before you know it everyone that uses Signal as "SMS app" will communicate over encrypted data messages.

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#133

Post by seanieb »

cookiengineer wrote: post #125
seanieb wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telegram is LESS secure than WhatsApp. https://www.wired.com/story/telegram-encryption-whatsapp-set...

... and Telegram FOSS [1] fixes all of the mentioned points? [1] https://github.com/Telegram-FOSS-Team/Telegram-FOSS

E2EE is in Telegram is disabled by default. Also, look at the jurisdictions Telegram operates from. Sketchy would be an understatement.

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#134

Post by seanieb »

fsflover wrote: post #118
seanieb wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telegram is LESS secure than WhatsApp. https://www.wired.com/story/telegram-encryption-whatsapp-set...

Only if you trust Facebook to implement E2E encryption well in their proprietary code.

I’ll take that risk over no default e2ee on Telegram any day.

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#135

Post by jillesvangurp »

nzgrover wrote: post #64

Why is Wire never mentioned in these discussions on HN, is there something I'm missing? Seems like the most secure option to me: https://wire.com/en/security/

Wire is intended for team chat. You can't use it to talk to your friends, parents, or third party companies. Signal, Telegram, Whatsapp, Matrix, etc. are general purpose chat networks with millions of users each. Different use case. Matrix you could use for corporate chat and lots of companies do. It's one of the few federated options out there currently. Oss too.

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#136

Post by dx034 »

foolinaround wrote: post #2

In Jan, there was a big outcry, i thought all would move to signal. I have about 25% of the conversations in signal, but especially for groups, whatsapp is so sticky, that they seem to have broadly failed in signal, and are back to whatsapp. I continue to have individual conversations on signal with most friends, but the idea of being able to leave whatsapp seems to be much tougher than I thought.

Most of my groups went to Signal. But until they support live location (something I use frequently, albeit less during Corona), I won't uninstall Whatsapp. For all their privacy faults, it's still the app with probably one of the best UX (so easy it's the only app my grandma can use) all features I'd want for a chat app without annoying extras.

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#137

Post by dx034 »

pkulak wrote: post #10
amanzi wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar experience here, except most people who moved to Signal were tech-savvy, while all my family and closest friends have stuck with WhatsApp. Given Signal's recent changes in direction, I'm considering just giving up on it and sticking with WhatsApp.

I set up a Matrix server for my family, and then bridged in everyone else I know who uses iMessage. Now at least I'm chatting in a single app.

That means your family can't communicate if your server is down?

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#138

Post by joking »

jonplackett wrote: post #12

Why is it so hard for someone to make a simple WhatsApp competitor with the same business model as the pre-facebook WhatsApp? It was build by just a few people 10 freakin years ago. I wish people valued their privacy higher than $1 a year but I guess many don't.

I actually paid for using whatsapp, but too many people prefer something free even if you are paying with your privacy. The thing is that a communication app has to be used by both parties on the conversation, and that's a huge entry barrier.

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#139

Post by luplex »

lmm wrote: post #43
nopato wrote: post #13

To be honest I feel a bit disenfranchised. I’ve used all my energy to convert all my friends to signal when the WhatsApp privacy policy fiasco happened and now they’re saying it was a waste of time since they don’t want anything to do with bitcoins.. I can’t blame them as I also don’t want this on my messaging app. I feel like I will just give up and use WhatsApp and assume that I only had privacy pre-internet.

Any time there's a project that's almost open-source, almost open standards, that's how it ends up going. If you'd gone for Matrix you wouldn't have that problem, because even if their developers decide to embed some bitcoin nonsense into the official client, the protocol and ecosystem is much bigger than that.

Which is why I'm not converting my friends to anything at the moment. Matrix is slowly gaining adoption, but I can't recommend neither a client nor a homeserver. It is at a place where every university should run a homeserver, though.

Re: WhatsApp's new privacy policy is so bad it might be illegal

#140

Post by hiq »

el_dev_hell wrote: post #8
foolinaround wrote: post #2

In Jan, there was a big outcry, i thought all would move to signal. I have about 25% of the conversations in signal, but especially for groups, whatsapp is so sticky, that they seem to have broadly failed in signal, and are back to whatsapp. I continue to have individual conversations on signal with most friends, but the idea of being able to leave whatsapp seems to be much tougher than I thought.

Throwing in my anecdotal experience. I noticed something very similar. About 25% of one-on-one conversations are now in Signal. Another 25% are in iMessage, which is a very easy sell for iOS users. I've had a terrible time with group chats. One large chat is occurring in iMessage (very poor experience). Another large chat is occurring in Discord, which has been fantastic, but it changes the dynamic and caused a few f…

> I've had a terrible time with group chats.

When was this? There was a migration from groupv1 to groupv2 which could explain it. I've always found it stable personally (including during migration). At any rate, it should be better now that there are less changes.

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