Earlier quoted context omitted.
How do credit bureaus "enforce morality"? I think the point is that the effect of a bad credit rating is much more limited than a universal blackout on the internet. In fact strictly more limited, to the extent that many creditors rely on social media in making their decisions.
I strongly disagree. Bad credit (sometimes even wrongly attributed) can block you from jobs, mobile plans, bank accounts, credit/debit cards, renting, etc. I'd rather be blocked from Facebook than be told I can't rent an apartment or be disqualified from a job.
Is content moderation a dead end?
221–230 of 309 posts
Re: Is content moderation a dead end?
#222Earlier quoted context omitted.
The community kind of enforced its own standards (eg almost no jokes, especially no stupid Reddit-style joke threads). But I think moderation was more important. However much pg wrote about being curious or “intellectual honesty” or whatever, it was the change in moderation (to dang) that saw changes. But that sort of thing doesn’t fit all communities. For one thing this one is basically public (there’s no shared-pri…
I agree, I meant that dang and sctb have a style that is more about nudging people into better behavior than about demanding compliance.
Re: Is content moderation a dead end?
#223Open systems ungood. Duty of thinkpol to enforce goodspeech. Prevent crimethink. Users read only prolefeed.[1] [1] https://genius.com/George-orwell-nineteen-eighty-four-append...
Your comment on the other hand seems to react (negatively, which is fine) to the central analogy, but its knee-jerk hostile phrasing is unlikely to be appreciated (or even understood) by anyone who doesn't already know what you're talking about and share your sentiments. So, if you were to phrase your sentiments in a more friendly (to the public, not necessarily to the writer of this essay) manner it could make this comments section more interesting and potentially fruitful.
Re: Is content moderation a dead end?
#224Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Right or wrong" maybe not, but for well managed communities on the internet, there are objective definitions for appropriate and inappropriate, based on shared values and context. If you leave it up to each individual to decide what is appropriate or inappropriate, and provide them with the tools to block content they consider inappropriate, that's a burden on them, because you're not taking care of it at the commun…
>there are objective definitions for appropriate and inappropriate, based on shared values and context. not necessarily. Taking out the more heated factors for a moment, think of a concept as simple as spoilers. spoiling others are widely considered to be an impolite move, but a community formed around talking about a work wouldn't want to have to blur every image or paragraph in order to have a conversation on what…
When I say based on shared values and contexts, I mean at the community level.
So for a community where people discuss Harry Potter books, many members are not going to want to be careful about everything they say for fear of spoiling someone else's experience. But some people might want to experience reading the books for the first time with other people in the same boat as them.
If this community was well managed, they might solve this by:
- Writing into the community guidelines that spoiler tags only need to be used when discussing something that's NEW.
- Users have the ability to have spoiler content hidden/shown by default. The key here is that the definition of what a spoiler is, is still defined by the community, not the individual.
- Creating a separate area within their community for new readers to chat about the books, where discussion about events in future books is not allowed.
By joining the community, and agreeing to the community guidelines, you are agreeing to abide by an objective definition for what's appropriate within that community.
If you don't agree with those guidelines, you probably don't want to join that community. But without any shared guidelines, you do trend towards anarchy. Certain topic/niches will approach it faster than others.
Re: Is content moderation a dead end?
#225Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think there a fine line between these and curated lists (which most would use) that create echo chambers and comfirmation bias (which many platforms have). I like the methods this site uses over others quite frankly and that seems to be quite a bit of human moderation to get to it. But i think scale also has something to do with it. Reddit was much like this site in its earlier days.
Echo chambers and confirmation bias are also known as community. I know everyone wants to “do something” but other people occupying communities whose identities and norms and beliefs you don’t like is a problem of humanity, not the internet.
Re: Is content moderation a dead end?
#226Earlier quoted context omitted.
How about making people put down a bond of even a small amount say $10 and something tied to your actual ID. The registrar knows who you are but sites only know you are a verified person but not who you are. If you are found to be a fake person you forfeit the bond. Now it costs $100,0000 to create 10k fake people and you can lose it all tomorrow.
This seems nice, but it would be nicer if there was a cryptographic way to be sure that the site couldn't obtain your id from the registrar. Is this doable? Or maybe these requirements together are contradictory?
Essentially registrar and major sites would coordinate to get bot accounts revoked your registrar wouldn't want to cancel user accounts erroneously. In most cases logically the registrar could be your email provider which would just be selling a verified email address but a third party could offer the same thing.
Re: Is content moderation a dead end?
#227Earlier quoted context omitted.
Echo chambers and confirmation bias are also known as community. I know everyone wants to “do something” but other people occupying communities whose identities and norms and beliefs you don’t like is a problem of humanity, not the internet.
See that take I don't agree with. There are plenty of communities where you can disagree without flaming. Where discussion and dissent can be had and heard without having to alienate or "pwn" them. You don't have to just ignore or exclude minority viewpoints to be a community. Most of the more welcoming communities typically embrace those as a matter of fact, and try to educate or evolve based on challenging their vi…
Re: Is content moderation a dead end?
#228Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If you leave it up to each individual to decide what is appropriate or inappropriate, and provide them with the tools to block content they consider inappropriate, that's a burden on them, because you're not taking care of it at the community level. The assumptions behind having individuals decide what's appropriate or not are: 1. The majority of the community would make the same choices 2. Those posting what most…
And if I join this community, I need to go through the effort of setting up software/apps to enforce my content choices. And if I'm viewing a conversation/thread/topic with something blocked in it, where I have blocked it but other members of the community have not, what does that experience look like to me? And if a spammer posts a dozen links to their website, but I haven't blocked that content yet in my content fi…
Typically, that involved using an existing application to connect to the service and read posts. As you spend more time reading through current and past threads, you would get an idea what you want to filter and what you want to see. In other words, you would set up your filters over time as opposed to doing everything at the start.
> And if I'm viewing a conversation/thread/topic with something blocked in it, where I have blocked it but other members of the community have not, what does that experience look like to me?
If no one responds to the post, you simply wouldn't see it. Otherwise, you would see responses to a post/comment that you couldn't see. The software could also allow you to hide any responses to that post if you had no interest in the subthread(s).
> And if a spammer posts a dozen links to their website, but I haven't blocked that content yet in my content filtering setup, that'll be fun.
I guess that depends if your client is configured to display linked content inline rather than just the urls. I don't use clients that display content inline and then just add a filter for the spam post.
> This just sounds something like Parler. You can post anything you want there, nothing is blocked, and you're free to set up browser-based filters to hide the content you don't wish to see. In effect, you end up with a community biased towards those who are comfortable with vitriol, and as such it's filled with terrible content.
It's how usenet worked and there were plenty of vibrant communities spread across many groups that lasted decades, if not longer.
Re: Is content moderation a dead end?
#229Earlier quoted context omitted.
They also do not like being questioned. That factor is as significant as the cost is.
This is a stereotype of journalists I have not seen confirmed. Most journalists I know are happy to admit when they are wrong, if it means they are closer to the truth.
Those who are working for smaller shops, or who are freelancing are in a very different place than people working within or dependent on the big media machine.
What beat you cover matters too. Some topics come with more permissive norms all around. Contrast social issues with economics and foreign policy. How much agency one has to both report in an investigative sense and be questioned varies widely.
There is wrong, as in not adhering to the orthodoxy and or established narrative, and there is wrong in a factual sense.
There are also taboos.
How many stories have you seen written from the labor point of view, or that question the growing Washington Economic Consensus, or even recognize it, for example?
How often do you see major league corrections? Where are they placed, why?
If you are reading overseas, indie, freelance work, you have seen some, and often the work is clear, solid, easy to understand.
Side note: Investigative work is particularly troublesome right now, and where it is unorthodox, is being actively suppressed to an increasing degree.
And I want to be clear here!
This is not saying people in journalism are bad somehow, nefarious. No, they are working in a highly consolidated media environment, or they are out in the cold working hard to do the job, despite considerable pressure.
Secondly, the entities they work for really do not want those questions at all. This may well be the more significant force in play.
Doing real journalism these days is hard work that does not pay well. While that has generally been true, consolidation, which just got permission to contract even further, has made all this more difficult.
Access journalism is a real thing too. Ask the wrong question, despite it being one very large numbers of people want asked, and boom. Gone. No access. Gonna need a new gig and potentially have it covering a new beat.
Often, we see steganography more than journalism because of these things. People pointing that out in comments gets conflated with people being idiots, trolls and asses and it all gets shut down.
Finally, old media is more like broadcast than it is Reddit, or even Substack.
In broadcast, nobody actually cares to ask what people want, nor is there any real two way dialog. It is broadcast, focus grouped, researched all to the nines, very little actually being done ad hoc, or even outside advertisers interests, which are often the media entity interest, which makes it the journalists interest, or conflict of interest depending on where they are at personally.
There are facts and there are opinions as to what those facts mean.
Journalists who enjoy sufficient agency see it like you say and have no problem with critics.
Many do not have that agency, and the entities who employ them much prefer broadcast rules and norms where their authority comes from size and position not so much performance. And those people will do what they can, but will also admit it often isn't much.
Re: Is content moderation a dead end?
#230Earlier quoted context omitted.
See that take I don't agree with. There are plenty of communities where you can disagree without flaming. Where discussion and dissent can be had and heard without having to alienate or "pwn" them. You don't have to just ignore or exclude minority viewpoints to be a community. Most of the more welcoming communities typically embrace those as a matter of fact, and try to educate or evolve based on challenging their vi…
In a Christian community you can't deny Christ. In a Dungeons and Dragons community you cant call everyone a nerd and tell them to play Call of Duty. In the Black community you can't be a white woman with hair extensions and claim be to be the victim of discrimination. Communities exist specifically because they exclude people from them. Sometimes thats good and sometimes its bad but attacking the very concept of a g…
Communities aren't only exclusive, they can be anywhere on a gradient between exclusive and inclusive.
An inclusive community may have a central focus, but would allow outsiders to participate.
Each of your examples have both inclusive and exclusive communities.