Live data from Hacker News

Is content moderation a dead end?

ben-evans.com

121–130 of 309 posts

Re: Is content moderation a dead end?

#121

Moderating a forum where anyone can post is playing whack-a-mole, especially if registering the new account is simple. One possible approach is something like Stack Exchange does: new users acquire their rights gradually. New accounts can only do little damage (post an answer that appears at the bottom of the list, and is made even less visible when someone downvotes it), and if they produce bad content, they will ne…

> vouching system

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_of_trust

I've not examined it closely, but Web of Trust follows that train of thought at least to an extent.

Re: Is content moderation a dead end?

#122

Moderating a forum where anyone can post is playing whack-a-mole, especially if registering the new account is simple. One possible approach is something like Stack Exchange does: new users acquire their rights gradually. New accounts can only do little damage (post an answer that appears at the bottom of the list, and is made even less visible when someone downvotes it), and if they produce bad content, they will ne…

I don't think the issue is that it is too easy to change identities. Vouching or slow starts both lead to much more closed systems. You could say that is a solution for the posed problem. "A more closed system".

But to me, a more closed system is less valuable. Certainly it lacks the network effects that seem to be needed these days to make it financially.

Re: Is content moderation a dead end?

#123
post #121

Moderating a forum where anyone can post is playing whack-a-mole, especially if registering the new account is simple. One possible approach is something like Stack Exchange does: new users acquire their rights gradually. New accounts can only do little damage (post an answer that appears at the bottom of the list, and is made even less visible when someone downvotes it), and if they produce bad content, they will ne…

> vouching system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_of_trust I've not examined it closely, but Web of Trust follows that train of thought at least to an extent.

"Trust" in this context means "I believe this key indeed matches this identity". Nothing more is meant by that.

Re: Is content moderation a dead end?

#124

Moderating a forum where anyone can post is playing whack-a-mole, especially if registering the new account is simple. One possible approach is something like Stack Exchange does: new users acquire their rights gradually. New accounts can only do little damage (post an answer that appears at the bottom of the list, and is made even less visible when someone downvotes it), and if they produce bad content, they will ne…

> There are probably other solutions.

For moderated deliberation to achieve consensus in decision making, here's a write-up for a system that combines ideas from StackOverflow, Reddit, and Wikipedia:

https://bitbucket.org/djarvis/world-politics/raw/master/docs...

Re: Is content moderation a dead end?

#125

I think we're looking at the issue in a completely wrong way. There's no objective definition of right or wrong in content moderation. Right and wrong is subjective, especially across cultures, and moderation should be subjective too. I believe end users should have the choice to adopt blocklists, Adblock style. Those lists could contain single posts, accounts, or even specific words. A lot of content (like flashing…

We used to have editors at newspapers who did this. They had an opinion, tried to be objective, but called out excesses.

Sometimes this went wrong, see yellow journalism. One thing that is different now is that you no longer have a say in who edits your newsfeed. You can't very easily switch news-feed.

I feel like the variation in opinions in modern-day editors is much smaller than the variation in opinions in society. Or maybe it isn't but the editing, being done more implicitly, is not convincing the wider populace that this is the way. That is, content moderators have much less authority (in the sense of respect) than old newspaper editors.

Re: Is content moderation a dead end?

#126
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Putting the moderation burden on people I don't think GP is saying we should put the moderation burden on people. When you accept that there is no objective definition of right or wrong, you begin to see that perhaps there are ways for people to self-organize on the internet according to their values rather than being shoved into the same box like we often do today. Many people are looking for ways to efficiently an…

"Right or wrong" maybe not, but for well managed communities on the internet, there are objective definitions for appropriate and inappropriate, based on shared values and context. If you leave it up to each individual to decide what is appropriate or inappropriate, and provide them with the tools to block content they consider inappropriate, that's a burden on them, because you're not taking care of it at the commun…

> based on shared values and context.

That's exactly the point GP was trying to make. That people should be able to organize in groups of shared values and context. Rather than there being a rather large rough mono-culture of moderation policies.

Re: Is content moderation a dead end?

#127
post #67

This is extremely short sighted. The complete opposite is more likely to be true. Privacy is almost dead and soon it will be almost impossible to hide your real identity on the internet and thus avoid consequences for your actions. That will allow companies to black list you across the internet, so if you are an a-hole in lets say Facebook by harassing people, doxing them, do child grooming, scams/fake advertisement,…

> That will allow companies to black list you across the internet Thus giving full control of people to private entities that are increasingly not held accountable by anything or anyone. Why would we want a private entity, not elected by the people, to decide our morality? Enforcing morality is dangerous and arguably immoral since it uses force to align people's thinking, which treats everyone like children that are…

> Why would we want a private entity, not elected by the people, to decide our morality?

i got the impression from the separation of church and state that we don't generally want elected officials deciding what is or is not moral.

merely what is legal.

Re: Is content moderation a dead end?

#128
I see it as kind of a funnel. First you decide how much participation you want to allow in the first place, and that's a big lever. Smaller niche communities are easier to moderate because a lot of policies are customs, meaning you don't need to make them explicit.

Another lever is related - decide how much you want to limit the kind of content. A like button is easier to moderate than upvote/downvote, which is easier than a poll response, which is easier than restricted markup, which is easier than allowing unsanitized html/js/sql. (I think there's a lot of unexplored territory between "poll response" and "restricted markup", in terms of allowing people to participate with the generation of content.)

Then there is distributing the moderation abilities themselves. Can users become moderators or only admins? Is there a reputation system? I miss the kuro5hin reputation system and would like to see more experiments along those lines.

And then finally you get to the hard stuff, the arguments about post-modernism and what truth is, creating codes of conduct, dealing with spirit-vs-letter and bad faith arguments, etc. Basically the "smart jerk" problem. I hate that stuff. I want to believe something simple like, as soon as you have a smart jerk causing problems, it means you've given them too much opportunity and should scale back, but I think it's not that simple.

Re: Is content moderation a dead end?

#129
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another site with moderated comments is Ars Technica. It works out great for them. On the other side there is unmoderated Phoronix, which has the worst comment section that I've ever seen.

Is it worse than YouTube comments? I have never looked at it but that has to be something..

YouTube comments are actually pretty good these days, I find.

Re: Is content moderation a dead end?

#130
post #22

Sigh. A "certain level of bad behaviour on the internet and on social might just be inevitable" has been an excuse since the beginning. I worked on the first web-based chat, bianca.com, and I heard it back then. More recently, I worked on anti-abuse at Twitter a few years back and hear the same talking point. Now I work on the problem at a not-for-profit, and it's still a talking point. Ignoring that the social media…

It is not that surprising having gone through this ebb and flow myself.

All utopias and utopic dreams rely too much on human nature being entirely good.

The comunist utopia relied on the goodness of the people in government. The capitalist utopia relied on the goodness of the entrepreneurs. Online communities and communities in general rely on the goodness of the members.

The reality is human nature contains both good and bad. And as a utopist, being faced with pure destructiveness like you are in content moderation is demoralizing.

Post reply on HN