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Just Be Rich

keenen.xyz

901–910 of 1001 posts

Re: Just Be Rich

#901
post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The renter doesn’t hold the risk. They can walk away. If you want the profit, then hold the risk. If you want the freedom of mobility, then rent.

I see you've been rightly downvoted. In the US, landlords also hold little risk, especially if they are corporate. Renters are stuck by leases and in many states, have little recourse to do anything when the property goes bad and the landlord won't fix things.

> landlords also hold little risk

Landlords hold all the risk. There's risk of devaluation, risk of renters destroying property, risk of unexpectedly high maintenance costs, risk of insurance/taxes going up more than planned. If anything bad happens to the property, the renter can just walk away, the owner is stuck with it.

I'm not a landlord, sometimes look into it but every time conclude that the risks are far too high for what minimal profit it might bring. So I stick to index funds.

Re: Just Be Rich

#902
post #428
post #7

A lot of people who are just as smart and motived as Elon Musk or Steve Jobs will never be able to start their own companies and get rich. Because they have family obligations that take priority. Because they live outside high-income countries. Because they have no access to support network, so when they fail, they fall all the way to bottom. Because they may have made a crippling mistake in their pasts that now prev…

On HN I see the sentiment that you expressed a lot of times. I live in a country which will be categorized by western countries as a developing country. There is no social support system in my country, you are pretty much on your own. Nobody is coming to help you. And I have made serious mistakes when I was in school which resulted in not being able to go to a good college which makes things in my country ten times m…

I mean good for you, and there are definitely people who are smart and hard working who make it despite various difficulties. But on-average those who are successful have more advantages than those who haven't. If you feel like you aren't one of the privileged ones then there's no reason for you to feel attacked .

Re: Just Be Rich

#903

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet you Peter Thiel understands Marxism. Comfortably the most honest tech billionaire I’ve read.

Ok, but the reason he (kind of) knows a bit about Marxism it is because he's a right-wing accelerationist (more specifically, a neoreactionary), and this needs to be properly said in context before just naively moving on with "he's a billionaire who has actually read Marx and has the caliber able to critique him". Accelerationists are people who view that capitalism can be a liberating force for humanity, whether it…

Thanks for your comment. I wasn’t familiar with this so I googled Peter Thiel Marxism and found some stuff but it seemed off. Your explanation makes a lot of sense.

Re: Just Be Rich

#904

Inequality by itself is not a bad thing. Let's start from there. If 90% of the population had a (sustainable) lifestyle of current dollar millionaires, and the remaining 10% had a (sustainable) lifestyle of dollar billionaires, there would be lots of inequality, but it wouldn't be problematic. Inequality is only bad if you're in a zero-sum game. The rich do have the power to extract rents and "rig the system" to ceme…

You're sort of subtly changing the argument to a utilitarian one, about whether allowing the status quo is good from a systemic perspective. This is a different argument about whether or not the current circumstances are justified, or what might be better.

These sorts of discussions also always seem to skim over the surface in many ways. For example, you make statements like this -- "an entrepreneur who gets rich by reducing waste and improving productivity by harnessing technology" -- as if the reasons someone got rich are by reducing waste and improving productivity, in a way that is clearly demonstrable, when the validity of this assumption is the very thing in question. There's a circularity to these kinds of assumptions that is of the form Person A is rich by virtue of their position at X, which has been associated with an increase in efficiency; therefore Person A caused the increase in efficiency at X, and therefore deserve to be rich. The problem with this argument is that not only is the "do they deserve such wealth given the other assumptions?" complex, it's also the case that the "did they cause these desirable things" and "did they alone cause these things?" is in question.

I agree inequality isn't necessarily a problem in itself. What is a problem is inequity, or lack of correspondence between income and "true merit" in a idealized sense (including one with true competition). My sense is that this is the real argument: is it fair that someone like Bezos has the wealth he does, even as one of his workers is struggling to make ends meet? (Consider what would happen if all Amazon workers left their positions simultaneously and permanently, and could not be replaced. Is Bezos responsible for Amazon's operations?) The inequality per se is one level of argument, but the real argument is something more like "is Amazon a good or bad thing? Should Bezos as an individual deserve the credit for whatever net goodness Amazon has accrued? Is it the case that whatever credit he does deserve, do to his actions per se, or the circumstances he found himself in?"

I suspect that in a fair world, incomes would be much less disparate, even globally, and there would be much more movement up and down, and back again. There's too much idolizing of the individual, as a static unchanging thing, one way or another. I think a lot of societal ills stem from this sort of perniciousness, including "cancel culture" and many other things: the fruit you see beneath the tree is due to that tree, and will never change one way or another, and cannot be changed.

Re: Just Be Rich

#905
post #152

It's also worth noting that many startups are used to launder trust funds and family money. Daddy (or the family office) invests in my friends startup, I (I wish) get a job as "chief growth officer" or "chief of staff" or "COO" or similar - or even as an early stage dev. Daddy gets preference shares - ofc - I get early stage employee shares, Daddy gets a tax break and Daddy's investment ushers in Venture funding. Wit…

This is quite the skeptical take, but then again, a few startups ago I saw things that definitely suggested you are right. I often find myself wondering how some startups raise so much money. It’s tempting to think that VCs and many co-founders are playing an insider’s game. But even if so, this doesn’t imply malice or malfeasance. It implies what has always been true: tribes take care of their own in contrast to tak…

Also Ivy League : there are a number of mechanisms that make that seem like a perfected meritocracy (genuinely in the opinion of many running it) but if you are a bad person like wot I can be if I forget to be nice... there are dark strands of corruption flowing under and letting the scions of money get into the community.

Re: Just Be Rich

#906
post #811

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, and would go further and argue that the lives of most middle class is perfectly fine right now. I think the lives of the bottom 20% could be improved, and I think that we should ask those at the top 10% to help them out. I think there are other more specific things we could worry about, like house prices out of control, nobody is paying to clean up the waste they produce, governments baling out rich people e…

Do you have any data to support anything you said here? The middle class has been getting decimated the past 20 years. They used to live comfortably on a single income, now both parents slave the week away and have even less purchasing power. Also, housing prices aren't "out of control" at all. Inflation is reducing the value of the dollar, and it's showing up in the real estate market. Inflation hurts anyone on a sa…

My data is anecdotal. I live in the suburbs surrounded my middle class people like myself. Food / clothes / tools / entertainment are plentiful. People are living a good life.

Here in Australia, house prices are rising significantly faster than inflation. My personal suspicion is that its because everything else is so cheap, the middle class can afford borrow and spend more of their dual income salaries on their houses.

Yes sure, the "they" is business owners, but its expected that the business owners should then pass that cost down to the consumers that buy the products. Yes, the business owners are reaping the rewards, but so are all of us consumers. (It's future generations that will pay the price.)

The root cause may be that we allow some people to have too much power in our society. But the amount of money they have in their bank accounts is irrelevant. We live in a democracy so we can make rules that balances power, but we choose to allow people with a lot of money to have a lot of power.

I think its much more interesting to look at inequality of power than inequality of money.

Re: Just Be Rich

#907

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah Bill Gates - terrible guy. Spending money trying to eradicate diseases that kill poor people. What's worse, here's him in 2015 ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Af6b_wyiwI ) wasting money and faffing on about some pandemic. As if that's going to happen, and even if it does the pandemic won't affect rich countries in any way.

You're falling for his scheme hook line and sinker. He spends a minor portion of his extreme wealth on good causes and charitywashes his bad reputation into being a "good guy." We then don't talk about the fact that we could go remarkably further on the same course if we took a much larger bulk of his wealth and put it toward similar objectives of reducing poverty, disease etc. This is of course nothing new. Robber b…

> He spends a minor portion of his extreme wealth on good causes and charitywashes his bad reputation into being a "good guy."

Bill and Melinda Gates have pledged 95% of their wealth to charity. So far, they have given away about $45B, and have a remaining wealth of about $110B -- even if they didn't give away any more than that, that's still over 30%, which I don't know if I'd consider a "minor portion".

How do you envision going significantly farther towards the objective of reducing poverty, disease etc than the Gates Foundation?

Re: Just Be Rich

#908
post #894

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But is it really "human nature"? Go back a few centuries, and everything belonged to a monarchy, and by everything, I mean even your life and your family. Were people unhappy "because of it"? For the vast majority of humans, I doubt it. They had just learned not to compare themselves with the king. For something to be human nature, I think it needs more time. And if peasants knew that comparing themselves to the king…

I would guide the comparison to the people closest to you, peers, bosses, schoolmates, people whose pet pictures you look at on Facebook. If those people are doing a lot better than you then it can cause some seriously negative emotions. I think the negative impact of social media is that we would have been previously unaware of the lives of more distantly related social connections such as old school friends or cowo…

Agreed. The focus of the original article was the widening gap between the top 1% (or 5, or 10) and the rest of the population. I doubt that it will cause "unhappiness". Unhappiness exists when you compare yourself with people within your percentiles (+- 5%).

A plumber in West Virginia is not unhappy because Bezos is so rich. He is unhappy because his welder brother-in-law just got paid after a better paying contract job (or is heavily in debt) and bought a used Audi.

Re: Just Be Rich

#909

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, and would go further and argue that the lives of most middle class is perfectly fine right now. I think the lives of the bottom 20% could be improved, and I think that we should ask those at the top 10% to help them out. I think there are other more specific things we could worry about, like house prices out of control, nobody is paying to clean up the waste they produce, governments baling out rich people e…

> I think there are other more specific things we could worry about, like house prices out of control, nobody is paying to clean up the waste they produce, governments baling out rich people etc. > Talking about "inequality" in the abstract is not worthwhile. I thought the connection between the problems you state and inequality was obvious. I guess it has to be spelt out: inequality means the super-rich become liter…

I right there with you when you talk about power imbalance, and although wealth and power are tightly linked, I think they can be discussed separately. I have no problem with the 1% having all the money as long as they are not using it to wield power and extracting rent from the rest of us.

I think there are issues with our Democracy and our Media, not with our Capitalism.

PS: if we wanted to, a democracy could simply make it illegal buy investment property insuring that everybody had somewhere to live. Freeing people from the burden of rent. The government could probably even provide mortgages "at cost" so that the bank leaches didn't take their pound of flesh too.

We could examine our society at large and free ourselves of rent seeking behavior.

Re: Just Be Rich

#910

Inequality by itself is not a bad thing. Let's start from there. If 90% of the population had a (sustainable) lifestyle of current dollar millionaires, and the remaining 10% had a (sustainable) lifestyle of dollar billionaires, there would be lots of inequality, but it wouldn't be problematic. Inequality is only bad if you're in a zero-sum game. The rich do have the power to extract rents and "rig the system" to ceme…

> If 90% of the population had a (sustainable) lifestyle of current dollar millionaires, and the remaining 10% had a (sustainable) lifestyle of dollar billionaires, there would be lots of inequality, but it wouldn't be problematic. I strongly disagree with this and I think it runs counter to human nature. You're looking at quality of life as if there were some kind of absolute measure of it, but it really doesn't wor…

What you describe seems to be term called "relative poverty" which is contrastable with "absolute poverty", which I just learned about recently.

What I read recently made the case for "relative poverty" being more psychologically damaging than "absolute poverty". e.g. if everyone one in your society is the same poor then it isn't as bad as being poor in a society of wealth. This made a lot of sense to me as I tasted relative poverty a few times, and there seemed to be a feeling of shame around it. Not that anyone tried to shame the (relatively) poor but it just felt shameful. I never wanted to invite my millionaire family classmates over to my tiny, run down house for example, as it was too embarrassing. I eventually moved back to a place where we had similar levels of income and there was only a single millionaire and it felt a lot better.

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