Deno 1.9 • Hacker News Board

Re: Deno 1.9

#11

Post by devmunchies » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 8:16 PM UTC

remexre wrote: post #6

GenerocUsername wrote: post #2

I feel like I have hit a point in my life where I don't want another framework to learn, and due to this I am not giving Deno a fair shake... Does anyone have a short anecdote why I might bother to invest in yet another JS framework?

Well, Deno's not really a framework, it's a runtime (like node.js). If you're writing Typescript, it makes that way easier. If you're doing lots of IO, it makes that easier (promises). If you want sandboxing, it has that (though if it's for server software, you should use firejail or Docker or something around it anyway).

does it interop with libs made for node.js and are on npm? e.g. using the official the AWS node.js library

Re: Deno 1.9

#12

Post by brundolf » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 8:16 PM UTC

GenerocUsername wrote: post #2

I feel like I have hit a point in my life where I don't want another framework to learn, and due to this I am not giving Deno a fair shake... Does anyone have a short anecdote why I might bother to invest in yet another JS framework?

It isn't a framework, it's a runtime. You use it instead of Node, and the headlining feature is you can run TypeScript without a separate build step. The system APIs are different than Node's but those are analogous/easy to learn, and the language itself is still just JavaScript/TypeScript, so there isn't really much to learn.

With that said: I've used it for a couple projects because I'm really interested in its value-proposition, but so far I'm not impressed with the dev experience when it comes to editor integration. It brings its own language server because it has a few tiny caveats, and the language server doesn't work nearly as well as the official TypeScript one. Type changes sometimes don't propagate across files, auto-imports are lacking the file extension (which Deno requires, so you have to go and manually edit them all), etc. Given that frictionless TypeScript support is the major draw, this is a pretty serious issue for me.

I hope it gets there some day, but for me it isn't there yet.

Re: Deno 1.9

#13

Post by konart » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 8:16 PM UTC

GenerocUsername wrote: post #2

I feel like I have hit a point in my life where I don't want another framework to learn, and due to this I am not giving Deno a fair shake... Does anyone have a short anecdote why I might bother to invest in yet another JS framework?

Should we tell him that this is not a framework? Anyone?

Re: Deno 1.9

#14

Post by brundolf » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 8:17 PM UTC

devmunchies wrote: post #11

remexre wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Deno's not really a framework, it's a runtime (like node.js). If you're writing Typescript, it makes that way easier. If you're doing lots of IO, it makes that easier (promises). If you want sandboxing, it has that (though if it's for server software, you should use firejail or Docker or something around it anyway).

does it interop with libs made for node.js and are on npm? e.g. using the official the AWS node.js library

It doesn't load libs from NPM directly, it has its own package management system based around URLs. Most JavaScript/TypeScript logic should port to it trivially, unless they use system APIs, in which case those will have to be converted to Deno's system APIs. But mostly that just comes down to "swap out function X for Y and rearrange the parameters a bit".

So in practice: it's super easy to port something, but most of the time you do actually have to port it, unfortunately.

Re: Deno 1.9

#15

Post by remexre » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 8:19 PM UTC

devmunchies wrote: post #11

remexre wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Deno's not really a framework, it's a runtime (like node.js). If you're writing Typescript, it makes that way easier. If you're doing lots of IO, it makes that easier (promises). If you want sandboxing, it has that (though if it's for server software, you should use firejail or Docker or something around it anyway).

does it interop with libs made for node.js and are on npm? e.g. using the official the AWS node.js library

Can't comment on sibling, but https://www.skypack.dev/ lets you import many npm packages; I haven't tried the AWS library, though.

Re: Deno 1.9

#16

Post by wperron » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 8:19 PM UTC

devmunchies wrote: post #11

remexre wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Deno's not really a framework, it's a runtime (like node.js). If you're writing Typescript, it makes that way easier. If you're doing lots of IO, it makes that easier (promises). If you want sandboxing, it has that (though if it's for server software, you should use firejail or Docker or something around it anyway).

does it interop with libs made for node.js and are on npm? e.g. using the official the AWS node.js library

The canonical answer is _maybe_. If your Node lib relies on Node built-ins, you won't be able to import it directly from GitHub for example. However, CDNs like Skypack and esm.sh do polyfill some of those to Deno. Your mileage may vary depending on the lib you're trying to import. Some will work better on one CDN, some on another -- you really just have to try it for yourself. A surprising amount of libs work without issues.

The AWS sdk v3 works really well from Skypack, check out our docs for our Deploy platform, it has an example with DynamoDB https://deno.com/deploy/docs/tutorial-dynamodb#write-the-app...

Re: Deno 1.9

#17

Post by brundolf » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 8:20 PM UTC

remexre wrote: post #15

devmunchies wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

does it interop with libs made for node.js and are on npm? e.g. using the official the AWS node.js library

Can't comment on sibling, but https://www.skypack.dev/ lets you import many npm packages; I haven't tried the AWS library, though.

That looks pretty cool; it's unsurprising that there's an automated solution since the differences are so small and predictable

Edit: Does this do automated conversion? I can't actually tell

Re: Deno 1.9

#18

Post by dubcanada » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 8:21 PM UTC

GenerocUsername wrote: post #2

I feel like I have hit a point in my life where I don't want another framework to learn, and due to this I am not giving Deno a fair shake... Does anyone have a short anecdote why I might bother to invest in yet another JS framework?

That's a rather ignorant thing to say.

You are basically saying "I feel like I have hit a point in my life where I don't want to learn."

It doesn't matter if it's a framework, language, protocol, specification, book, way of coding, or anything else. Learning is how you gain knowledge and stopping ones desire to gain knowledge is never a "point in ones life". It's just being lazy.

Re: Deno 1.9

#19

Post by wperron » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 8:21 PM UTC

brundolf wrote: post #12

GenerocUsername wrote: post #2

I feel like I have hit a point in my life where I don't want another framework to learn, and due to this I am not giving Deno a fair shake... Does anyone have a short anecdote why I might bother to invest in yet another JS framework?

It isn't a framework, it's a runtime. You use it instead of Node, and the headlining feature is you can run TypeScript without a separate build step. The system APIs are different than Node's but those are analogous/easy to learn, and the language itself is still just JavaScript/TypeScript, so there isn't really much to learn. With that said: I've used it for a couple projects because I'm really interested in its val…

Sorry you've had this experience -- the LSP is improving a lot with every release, this one included, try it out and let us know what you think. We really appreciate issues for the LSP on GH

Re: Deno 1.9

#20

Post by maga » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 8:24 PM UTC

The often overlooked selling point of Deno that I find most compelling is the (re)use of web APIs. As a full-stack dev writing isomorphic code and libraries, dealing with ideosincracies of nodejs has been a pain.