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The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

vivaldi.com

41–50 of 216 posts

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#41
post #10

I’m sure there has to be a better way to introduce the audience to FLoC. I’m over five paragraphs in and the article hasn’t properly articulated what is FLoC and _why_ it is bad. Just that it is bad.

I'll take a stab. Suppose your browser told every website you visited that you had the identifier "FAANG", and your friends web browser told every website they visited: "FAA_G" (b/c obviously they don't have netflix).

Per the linked article, the browser is filling in the blanks "___N_" as you visit each website, but it's telling each website not _what_ site you visited, but that you are in the groups of "FAA_G" vs. "FAANG".

The browser manufacturer is effectively seeing every user for what they are (all the letters of the alphabet, as it were), and each site is only seeing a hash/digest/cohort/group, but those group segregations are not coming from particular "networks of websites", but instead from the browser itself.

The end result is that you can't trust the browser b/c it might be (ed: it is!) spying on you.

Google started removing the URL bar and replacing it with the omni-box. Instead of https://google.com/ => ?q=guitar, you would simply type "guitar" into the URL bar.

The lesson here is to reduce the number of intermediaries between you and your customer. Own the hardware, the screen, the operating system, the network, _everything_ between your CPU's and the user's eyeballs. (or in amazon's case, the manufacturer, the boxes, the website, the shipper, the TV, etc.). (or in netflix's case, the content, the edge-cache storage tank, the TV, the remote control, the pixels, etc.)

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#43
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see what you mean. It's very easy to be GDPR compliant, just don't track your users. In fact, it's more work to be non-compliant than to be compliant.

That depends on what you are doing. If you are doing ecommerce, you need shipping address. GDPR does add work in this case.

A little extra work in order to kill a lot of adtech is arguably a good thing.

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#44

Does FLoC include anti-tamper features or could one of Chrome's competitors "support" FLoC by populating the FLoC user profile with fabricated user data?

That's exactly the same thing I asked myself after skimming through the github README.

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#45

"Please switch to a browser that supports FLoC to view this page." [Links to Chrome, etc.] "This website requires a browser that supports FLoC. Please install one of the folllowing compatible browsers: " [Links for Chrome, etc.] "We've detected you are using a browser that does not support FLoC. Please update your browser to use this website." [Links to Chrome, etc.] "Your browser is outdated! Please upgrade." [Links…

Is FLoC built in a way where you couldn't just feed websites fake data?

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#47

"Please switch to a browser that supports FLoC to view this page." [Links to Chrome, etc.] "This website requires a browser that supports FLoC. Please install one of the folllowing compatible browsers: " [Links for Chrome, etc.] "We've detected you are using a browser that does not support FLoC. Please update your browser to use this website." [Links to Chrome, etc.] "Your browser is outdated! Please upgrade." [Links…

At this point, the only browser that could ignore FLoC without being blocked by website is Safari. If Safari chooses not to implement FLoC, it might be sufficient to prevent web developers from blocking other non-FLoC browsers.

All of this rest on Apple standing up for privacy through.. so watch for any announcements from Apple.

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#48
post #32

I don't see how the entire FLoC concept can succeed. There is zero incentive for Chromium forks, let alone any other browser vendor, to implement/leave-in this technology. For other browser vendors, it is zero-effort to not support it. For Chromium forks, implementing it is zero effort but also comes with the same negative gain it would have for other vendors (that end-users are blind to). Unless you consider "more r…

I can see advertising networks forming some sort of revenue split agreement with browsers so that they include FLoC.

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#49

"Please switch to a browser that supports FLoC to view this page." [Links to Chrome, etc.] "This website requires a browser that supports FLoC. Please install one of the folllowing compatible browsers: " [Links for Chrome, etc.] "We've detected you are using a browser that does not support FLoC. Please update your browser to use this website." [Links to Chrome, etc.] "Your browser is outdated! Please upgrade." [Links…

I'd love to ditch javascript entirely. Is there an android browser that supports that?

Re: The Vivaldi browser will not support Google’s FLoC

#50
post #41
post #10

I’m sure there has to be a better way to introduce the audience to FLoC. I’m over five paragraphs in and the article hasn’t properly articulated what is FLoC and _why_ it is bad. Just that it is bad.

I'll take a stab. Suppose your browser told every website you visited that you had the identifier "FAANG", and your friends web browser told every website they visited: "FAA_G" (b/c obviously they don't have netflix). Per the linked article, the browser is filling in the blanks "___N_" as you visit each website, but it's telling each website not _what_ site you visited, but that you are in the groups of "FAA_G" vs. "…

If I am reading this right (and you seem to have read it the same way) it ends up creating a browser fingerprint. Visit 1 FLoC and they have no real idea who you really are. But if you visit several they could easily tell. Which is similar to how they use your installed list of fonts to identify you. But more formalized?
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