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Is Russia going to war with Ukraine and other questions

bbc.com

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Re: Is Russia going to war with Ukraine and other questions

#31

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

dogma1138 wrote: post #11
vbezhenar wrote: post #5

Ukraine threatens to invade DPR and LPR. Russia gathers forces to scare Ukraine and to prevent that invasion. For me it's pretty simple. War is unlikely, because Ukraine won't risk it. Russia does not want to invade Ukraine either, because it's just don't make sense, at least right now, when they want to finish Nord Stream 2.

It doesn’t matter what Ukraine is attempting to do, and it wouldn’t be an invasion it’s their territory.

The situation in these areas is substantially more complicated than that. They're part of Ukraine's internationally recognized territory, yes, but they seceded in response to a 2014 overthrow (very arguably a coup) of the democratically elected president they supported. So there are good reasons that a Ukranian military takeover would be seen as aggression.

Re: Is Russia going to war with Ukraine and other questions

#32

Post by wombat-man »

_xnmw wrote: post #9

Canadian here on the ground in Ukraine, on the Eastern side (Kharkiv). The situation is pretty serious as everyone’s talking about war, and I personally am stocking up on non-perishable food items. The prevailing opinion seems to be that Russia is just flexing muscles, but I personally believe a full scale invasion is in the works. The idea that Putin is trying to extract concessions doesn’t make sense to me, because…

hmm... can you leave?

Re: Is Russia going to war with Ukraine and other questions

#34

Post by coold »

helge9210 wrote: post #14
vbezhenar wrote: post #5

Ukraine threatens to invade DPR and LPR. Russia gathers forces to scare Ukraine and to prevent that invasion. For me it's pretty simple. War is unlikely, because Ukraine won't risk it. Russia does not want to invade Ukraine either, because it's just don't make sense, at least right now, when they want to finish Nord Stream 2.

"invade" seems to be a wrong word. "liberate" sounds better. Kicking out Russian forces, reaching the border, putting neutral peacekeeper forces and then starting gradual reintegration would be the best scenario for Ukraine.

Their "invaders", our "liberators"

Re: Is Russia going to war with Ukraine and other questions

#35

Post by drran »

ivanivanovich wrote: post #25
dandanua wrote: post #22

I can't understand how some smart people still sympathize Russia and say it acts only for defense. Russia has made the first annexation in Europe since WW2 and effectively control another part of Ukraine. Right now it looks like Russian logic is that every free person in the world is a potential threat to Russia. Because threat is anything that you don't control.

Did the people of Crimea want to be in Russia or the Ukraine?

Russians want to live in Crimea, so they packed up peoples of Crimea and sent them to Siberia. Can you travel to Siberia and ask them, please?

Re: Is Russia going to war with Ukraine and other questions

#36

Post by vbezhenar »

kvgr wrote: post #26
vbezhenar wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Propaganda presumes lies. Official position is just that: official position. Kremlin believes that Ukraine is preparing to war. There are reports about Ukraine forces gathering up, so those beliefs probably are justified.

Is there any presumption that Russia politicians are not lying? They are the spokesperson of propaganda.

There's not, just like there's not any presumption that BBC reports about Russian forces are not lying. So one should weight all the information and choose which one to believe. I expressed my point of view which might be wrong. There's absolutely no reason right now for Russia to invade Ukraine. They had plenty of time before. They have to finish Nord Stream 2, so they absolutely don't want to impose any additional sanctions on themselves. While US have all the incentive to break bonds between Russia and Germany and to prevent Nord Stream 2, so they commanded Zelensky to start a war, hoping that Russia will join it and Europe will be forced to impose additional sanctions.

Russia could have attacked before. Russia could attack later, when Nord Stream 2 is finished and Germany is on hook and won't go anywhere. But right now it's just the wrong time.

Re: Is Russia going to war with Ukraine and other questions

#37

Post by dandanua »

ivanivanovich wrote: post #25
dandanua wrote: post #22

I can't understand how some smart people still sympathize Russia and say it acts only for defense. Russia has made the first annexation in Europe since WW2 and effectively control another part of Ukraine. Right now it looks like Russian logic is that every free person in the world is a potential threat to Russia. Because threat is anything that you don't control.

Did the people of Crimea want to be in Russia or the Ukraine?

I bet they would prefer to be a part USA, France, or Japan at least, if not brainwashed.

Re: Is Russia going to war with Ukraine and other questions

#39

Post by arithmomachist »

_xnmw wrote: post #9

Canadian here on the ground in Ukraine, on the Eastern side (Kharkiv). The situation is pretty serious as everyone’s talking about war, and I personally am stocking up on non-perishable food items. The prevailing opinion seems to be that Russia is just flexing muscles, but I personally believe a full scale invasion is in the works. The idea that Putin is trying to extract concessions doesn’t make sense to me, because…

Haven't the Ukrainians diverted important rivers upstream on Crimea? Undoing that could be the concession Putin is hoping for.

Re: Is Russia going to war with Ukraine and other questions

#40

Post by bserge »

An actual war with the thousands of troops they're moving? I don't know, I hope not.

Surely Russian leaders remember how the war in Afghanistan affected the USSR. It was a massive waste of money and resources, and it played a big role in destabilizing the whole regime.

This would be similar, imo, if NATO backs Ukraine. Russia will just waste money, destroy lives and whatever prosperity the region had, for little to no return. Maybe they get two more republics into the federation.

They're just pushing Ukraine, Georgia into NATO and everyone else away from them. What a sad state of affairs.

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