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China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

economist.com

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Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#151

Post by rafale »

jszymborski wrote: post #99
rafale wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China promotes a monolithic Chinese identity above race and class. That's why they are called an ethnostate. It's the anti multiculturalism and it seems to be working for them for the most part. Despite the awful nazi grade stuff going on in some parts.

This "unity" comes at a horribly steep cost. Side-stepping for a moment the humanitarian and ethical costs for a brief moment, an enforced homogeneity of ideology leaves little room for independent thinking. At some point, you end up passing down every decision down and idea down a party line like a bucket through a fire brigade. That severely stifles innovation and creates an incredibly narrow view of your options.…

That's what I used to believe, that a totalitarian regime can never compete with a free society. The USSR tried and failed. But China is something different. They are extremely competent. And they are past their copy cat phase. I don't believe they have a creativity issue.

I think the free society model is failing given how easy to dissipate false information, especially the kind that get people riled up against each other. It's not a surprise the US feels so divided today despite all the progress made in civil rights. Our enemies/adversaries know that. They know our weak spot. And they made it their strength. China found a way to do it without compromising other aspects of its society too much.

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#152

Post by Daho0n »

rory_isAdonk wrote: post #119

Can we get a new a trade deal with China which enforces democratic and labor rights? Otherwise please embargo them for the sake of humanity, shift industry back to the West and forget about them.

Uh..

Can we get a new a trade deal with the US which enforces democratic and labor rights? Otherwise please embargo them for the sake of humanity, shift industry back to Europe and forget about them.

See how insane it sounds? Because it's not like the US is a shining beacon of democracy and worker rights. Sure it's better than China but by how much compared to say Scandinavia? It's all degrees. An Amazon worker looks like someone working under slave-like conditions from where I'm sitting.

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#153

Post by vict7 »

thepasswordis wrote: post #71

It's because we stopped focusing on creating things, and instead started laser focusing on making sure that everybody gets exactly the same amount of everything all the time. It's ridiculous. We are trust fund children who don't understand where the money came from, and it will be our undoing. Twitter, NYT, CNN, Fox News, MSNBC and the like have monetized dividing us, and they have a multi-billion dollar a year budge…

No, the miniscule strides made towards a more equitable society are not the issue. We laser focused on the generation of profit for the few at the expense of everything and everyone else. Where do you get your news? OAN?

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#154

Post by klout_ »

seriousquestion wrote: post #37
klout_ wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, there isn't. The best you could do is disassociate from any criticisms you have made about CCP. Better yet, start a pro-CCP newsletter in substack, and hope for the best.

Institutions like Apple, the NBA and the corporate press embraced this strategy a while ago. They echo CCP talking points about how terrible the US is, while largely ignoring factory worker conditions, Hong Kong and the ongoing Uyghur genocide.

Taking on CCP or any powerful entity ideologically is above the pay grade of corporate entities, so no surprises there. However the US government should put pressure on these entities and put sanctions when appropriate. You can't keep empowering authoritarian governments at your own expense.

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#155

Post by BigW1lly »

Pandabob wrote: post #81

As a European, I've never been so pessimistic about the EU but so optimistic about the USA. I really feel like European leaders need some kind of wake up call.

Yes, they are very complacent. Perhaps a single strong leader could be the source of inspiration, the catalyst to a stronger European continent. Right now, the people are not inspired by any of the current "leaders".

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#157

Post by rebolek »

fnord77 wrote: post #51

> They say some Chinese officials are convinced that the eu will soon drop its Xinjiang-related sanctions, because Europe cannot recover from the pandemic without Chinese growth. Anyone else think they are grossly underestimating the EU?

Everyone is. That’s EU’s greatest strength.

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#158

Post by sshine »

EdwinLarkin wrote: post #111
endisneigh wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you seriously believe China is worse now then it was 50 years ago?

China is not worse than it was 50 years ago however it's development is unsustainable and superficial.

Numbers > adjectives

Chinese has a booming middle class as well as a lot of poor people.

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#159

Post by newdude116 »

EdwinLarkin wrote: post #129
newdude116 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Well, maybe in Europe. tap water in the US isn't especially good. 2. Air quality is improving fast. 3. The the right to unaffordable health care? 4) Obviously you have never lived in China. Sorry to break the news to you. Yes, China is attracting young people from all over the world too.

1. At least it's drinkable and not poisoned like in China. 2. No it is not. Have not you seen the dystopian reality of Beijing from last month? 3. Chinese healthcare is hazard on its own. 4. I have. China is not attracting anyone on a comparable level like the EU or the US. Also you dont get to stay and work in China even if you married someone from there.

2.? Are you serious? This was a sandstorm, a very natural phenomenon. In fact, I love sandstorms since they remind me of my best times in Beijing.

3. They have clinics that would make most western clinics cry. Yes, they charge like western clinics too. But I have been for a minor thing in a normal Chinese hospital, a friend of mine had his appendix removed and another US friend of mine got a major surgery in a Chinese military hospital.

4. Don't know where you have been. Shanghai and Beijing is full of young and ambitious people from all over the world. They look for the future, not for the past. I was an immigrant in the US myself (also have an US passport now). The US was always closed for me. Zero opportunities. In China it is a brand new world. Opportunities, ambition, money. I consider it my home.

Re: China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

#160

Post by jszymborski »

The only way China wins is if we become them.

There's a shocking number of comments here that insinuate or flat-out claim that China's autocratic nature is what their "inevitable success" is due to.

If China pulls ahead, it'll be because the West has neglected its democratic values. Valuing profits over people is not a democratic value; it favors the few over the many. It's also, coincidentally, what got us in this mess.

The West is hardly in an irreversible decline. It is, however, reckoning with the forces responsible for an ascendant China. It's a painful process, and I can't say what the result is, but I'm confident I do know the way out: a reinforcement of progressive democratic values.

When this pandemic ends, we need to work on creating stronger community, greater social equity, and work towards completely ending economic activity in non-democratic countries.

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