Just Be Rich • Hacker News Board

Re: Just Be Rich

#331

Post by yiyus » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 9:09 AM UTC

camhart wrote: post #264

johnfn wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m stuck on the second sentence of your argument. If the wealthy aren’t responsible for income inequality, then who is? An action doesn’t have to be illegal for us to condone it. Do you like income inequality? No? Then let’s take measures to stop it.

There isn't a finite amount of "wealth" in the world. You can go out and make wealth every single day. The rich obtaining more of it doesn't mean there's less left over for you and I. People need to be able to cover their needs. Food, housing, healthcare, and I'd be open to arguments in favor of education. But I don't see income inequality as bad necessarily. I see massive amounts of people unable to cover those need…

> There isn't a finite amount of "wealth" in the world.

Yes, there is. It is not limited, we can do more of it, but of course it is finite. It is also important that, the more wealth you have, the easier it becomes to make more of it. So, indeed, the rich obtaining more of it does mean there's less for you and me.

Re: Just Be Rich

#332

Post by prox » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 9:10 AM UTC

ramblerman wrote: post #221

reader_mode wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in a family of 7 (4 younger siblings), during civil war, father was into gamling and drinking, mother was unemployed and constantly on the verge of a mental breakdown (understandable given the conditions she was living in). To paint the picture, I have vivid memories of vomiting a boiled onion I ate after not eating for days (I think I was arround 5 years old). And we were poor well into my early 20s untill…

Unfortunately the dysfunction and poverty may go hand in hand a lot of the time. There is strong indication that scarcity affects cognitive function. "Scarcity: Why having too little means so much" is a great book on this. In essence it is not that people in poverty have less innate executive control / cognitive capacity, but that the situation of poverty causes anyone to lose some significant points of executive con…

I absolutely think this is a thing, speaking from experience. Working freelance and suddenly see your savings / income dry up due to circumstances. You start to go into “survival” mode which means you start making radical different decisions that work in favour of near future results (aka surviving) but cost dearly in long term health, independence and economic strength.

Re: Just Be Rich

#333

Post by TeMPOraL » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 9:13 AM UTC

stdbrouw wrote: post #202

saddlerustle wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much every mainstream economist put the blame for this squarely on the massively increased regulation of the housing market since the 70s causing a massive decrease in the amount of new construction, not wealth itself.

That's simply not true. Economists who try to explain the housing crisis have pointed to increased regulation, cheap credit leading to an asset bubble, speculation, ill-advised tax cuts for homeowners, NIMBYism (not by government but by current residents), irrational buy vs. rent decisions, changing preferences for city vs. suburb, relaxed downpayment requirements, changing lifestyles and demographics with bachelors…

What about just, people buying multiple houses/apartments to rent them out? IANAE, but I have a sinking feeling the situation would quickly improve if ownership had per-person limits (and no easy way to pool the limits into a company).

Countries could build new housing faster than the population grows, but as long as it can be scooped up by the wealthy for renting out, the scarcity would prevail.

Re: Just Be Rich

#334

Post by herbst » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 9:15 AM UTC

Err_Eek wrote: post #318

herbst wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think its more than just that. I think less people are interested in actually owning their housing. For me housing is the least thing i want to worry about, so i gladly rent and simply can fix any problems by calling my landlord who is by law obliged to keep the house in a liveable condition. Also flexibility, i can move whenever i want without worrying about the value of my house (which in reality likely only loos…

> I think less people are interested in actually owning their housing. How do you reconcile this impression of yours with the fact that housing prices are shooting up in all major cities, and have been so for decades? Why is this happening if fewer people are actually interested in owning their own housing? As a sidenote: in my own personal experience housing is the single major issue of all my close friends and fami…

Simple, rich people looking for stable assets. I mean sure its not as simple as that but this is generally what is happening in my city. Old space with smaller houses is bought and built on by big housing companies. More and more space in the city is owned by a few big (some stock traded) companies.

I live in Switzerland and a lot of my social circle is in tech, so i know quite some people who have the financial means to own their housing but only few do. Most in the high income spectrum even use the flexibility of moving regularly.

I personally don't consider buying a house anytime soon either. I could prolly afford the house i rent, however i dont live near a city, i highly doubt the value would ever rise, more the opposite as the house is old and needs regular repairs. Buying the house would be like 350 times the rent, at least. Plus all the repairs are suddenly my problem.

Re: Just Be Rich

#335

Post by chii » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 9:15 AM UTC

herbst wrote: post #286

donnythecroc wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is all down to the basic human need of a home. In the 70s and 80s even 90s someone on a teacher's salary could own their own home in a major world city - say London. Now, literally zero chance. Because homes have become an asset class and the rich can outbid regular people so they are pushed out. That's the problem. I couldn't care less how many billionaires there are if regular people can afford a decent…

I think its more than just that. I think less people are interested in actually owning their housing. For me housing is the least thing i want to worry about, so i gladly rent and simply can fix any problems by calling my landlord who is by law obliged to keep the house in a liveable condition. Also flexibility, i can move whenever i want without worrying about the value of my house (which in reality likely only loos…

But you lose the ability to continue to rent if the landlord doesn't want to continue, aka you can get kicked out.

And any costs to maintain a livable condition is going to just be added to the cost of the rent anyway, so it's not like you're actually saving money.

Buying as its own costs of course, and sometimes it's more cost effective to rent. The most unuseful answer, hence, is that it depends on the specifics.

Re: Just Be Rich

#336

Post by xupybd » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 9:15 AM UTC

AussieWog93 wrote: post #317

xupybd wrote: post #29

Absolute wealth has increased as the wealth gap increased. Standards of living for everyone have gotten better, but there is still an issue. Wealth is not just about your buying power it's also about your social status and power. A lot more status and power is concentrated with the few. This is a big problem if you care about individual freedoms. They tend to erode very quickly with a concentration of power.

I would agree with you 100% if it weren't for absolutely ludicrous house prices (for reference, I'm in Melbourne, but I've heard similar complaints from people in Canada and Hong Kong). My wife and I have a far higher than average household income, and even we're worried about how the hell we can afford to own our own home. God knows what the average single-income, working class family goes through.

I'm in NZ and it's craz I've here too.

I don't know if that's a symptom of a wealth gap or something else. What ever it is it's a real issue. I personally think prices are inflated by low interest rates and the bubble is going to pop at some point.

Re: Just Be Rich

#337

Post by eloisant » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 9:16 AM UTC

mordae wrote: post #161

inglor_cz wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure? From what I see around me, people who have money are a constant target of other people who want to drop their beaks into it, so to say. Starting with distant relatives that got into trouble and suddenly found a familial love for them, continuing with various false friends, gold diggers of both sexes and people hustling investment opportunities. Ending with lawyers and doctors who might induce you to und…

Yes. Having extra cash means you can eat out (saves 1+ hour a day), buy an automated vacuum, dishwasher (extra 30 minutes a day), get a car or use taxi (1-2 hours, depending on location), hire a personal assistant (better organization, hard to estimate), get better medical care (less pain = better concentration)... You also have access to specialists. You can hire a lawyer, people to help you with research, people to…

Additionally being rich gives you a network of friends who are also rich, resulting in even more opportunities.

Your friend who owns a house in Chamonix and will let you use it for free during your vacations, your friends CEO of a big company who will give a high level internship to your son, your friends starting a new company and asking you early if you want to invest in it, etc...

Re: Just Be Rich

#338

Post by donw » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 9:17 AM UTC

ramblerman wrote: post #221

reader_mode wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in a family of 7 (4 younger siblings), during civil war, father was into gamling and drinking, mother was unemployed and constantly on the verge of a mental breakdown (understandable given the conditions she was living in). To paint the picture, I have vivid memories of vomiting a boiled onion I ate after not eating for days (I think I was arround 5 years old). And we were poor well into my early 20s untill…

Unfortunately the dysfunction and poverty may go hand in hand a lot of the time. There is strong indication that scarcity affects cognitive function. "Scarcity: Why having too little means so much" is a great book on this. In essence it is not that people in poverty have less innate executive control / cognitive capacity, but that the situation of poverty causes anyone to lose some significant points of executive con…

I'm not sure that's specific to scarcity, though.

Imagine two rooms, each with a caged bear. The bear is not happy being in a cage. A rich man, and a poor man, are ushered into their respective rooms, and told that the lock on the cage isn't all that reliable.

I'd wager that they'd both suffer roughly equally on a provided IQ test.

If you can't afford it, that car repair is an existential threat.

You don't get that car fixed, you don't get to work, you lose your job, and then everything else that goes with that. Not to mention figuring out what you're going to do while your car is in the shop. Maybe you skimp on the repair, just do what you need to get it running again, and hope it doesn't turn into a bigger problem down the road.

If you can afford it, it's an inconvenience.

You drop your car off with the mechanic, get a rental or just Uber it to work, and pick up your car when it's ready. You'll pay to fix things properly, of course, because you can.

I think it's not scarcity itself, but constantly living under existential fear that causes so many problems.

Re: Just Be Rich

#339

Post by noxer » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 9:18 AM UTC

EliRivers wrote: post #313

noxer wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half of that is caused by their own past decisions and the other half by their own present decision to not put 100% of their effort into changing it. >being poor is the single most powerful force that prevents people from doing that. IMO absolutely wrong. The real reason is people dont try and risk it all. And they search for reasons why they would not be able to make it, including the oh so unfair starting points in…

Also what exactly is so "scary" about failing? Do people think they end up homeless under a bridge or something? I see a practically zero chance that could ever happen to someone who fights. You need to have some serious mental health problems and probably drugs to fall this deep. Well this is just not true. You have a fantasy view of life that does not ally with reality.

So you think you could end up homeless under a bridge even trough you would do everything you can do avoid that? I dont think so. Long time homeless people are a very niche type of persons that "gave up" for whatever reason. Usually mental health, age, drugs. I worked for 2 year with someone who was homeless for a few months. The reason he wasn't anymore and other still are is solely his own actions. But he was young didn't do hard drugs and had the will to do whatever it takes to get out.

Re: Just Be Rich

#340

Post by chii » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 9:19 AM UTC

kjcharles wrote: post #201

jackdh wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To play devils advocate, surely removing the artifical limits won't help in the long run as the city will just continue to spraw until it hits natural limits?

Most American and European cities are significantly less dense than their Asian counterparts. There's a long way to go before they reach any natural limits.

which comes back to the original question - people who are used to larger spaces prefer to continue having those larger spaces. So houses are more sought after, which causes apartments' prices to not grow, which causes fewer of them to be built (as not as high appreciation).

It's partially a cultural problem imho.