Live data from Hacker News

Just Be Rich

keenen.xyz

291–300 of 1001 posts

Re: Just Be Rich

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably due to the issue that Piketty noted in his book, getting reliable and comprehensive data on wealth is far, far harder than doing so for income. I agree with your criticism but it doesn't seem entirely honest when the "hollowing out" of the Middle Class has been a well observed phenomenon for at least the past decade if not several more.

How has the "hollowing out" of the middle class been well observed when the data required to observe it is unreliable and shallow?

You can usually infer quite a lot from income data anyway given that wealth and income tend to be quite closely related. Obviously, there are exceptions but in general there is a strong correlation.

Furthermore, Piketty and other researchers have gone to great lengths to get reliable wealth data despite the difficulties.

The difficulty of performing these investigations rigorously is why I would prefer to trust studies from professional economists rather than a hot-take from a blog.

Re: Just Be Rich

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in a family of 7 (4 younger siblings), during civil war, father was into gamling and drinking, mother was unemployed and constantly on the verge of a mental breakdown (understandable given the conditions she was living in). To paint the picture, I have vivid memories of vomiting a boiled onion I ate after not eating for days (I think I was arround 5 years old). And we were poor well into my early 20s untill…

You are a hero to have realized all of this on your own and not have become bitter in the process. Way to go, man!

[deleted]

Re: Just Be Rich

#294
post #7

A lot of people who are just as smart and motived as Elon Musk or Steve Jobs will never be able to start their own companies and get rich. Because they have family obligations that take priority. Because they live outside high-income countries. Because they have no access to support network, so when they fail, they fall all the way to bottom. Because they may have made a crippling mistake in their pasts that now prev…

Yet, there are many examples of those who made big from rags to riches. Am not talking about movie stars but business tycoons. Carol Bartz, Dhirubai Ambani, Naval Ravikant, Chamath to name a few.

Bartz for instance "Bartz was born in Winona, Minnesota. After losing her mother at a young age, she moved with her brother to her grandparent's farm in Alma, Wisconsin. She took a job at a bank at age 15 to help support her family. Good grades in high school earned her a scholarship to William Woods, a prestigious all-girls college in Missouri. She transferred to the University of Wisconsin-Madison and worked her way through college as a waitress. In 1971, she earned her degree in computer science."

Being poor can work as the single most powerful force for people to get out of poverty and pursue their dreams.

Not to be rude, but for those who want to find excuses will find excuses. Those who want to break out and go get things done, will find no excuses.

Re: Just Be Rich

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, I live in relatively wealthy Western Europe and emigrating to the United States would still be a hell of a lot of work. It's not 1900 where you can just jump on a boat. Comments like the one you quoted just seem completely divorced from reality.

I moved from one of the shittiest Eastern countries to the "relatively wealthy Western Europe". And it was 2018 where I "just jumped on airplane". How am I detached from reality when live in it?

Within the EU?

That's an exception due to the freedom of movement rules which don't really exist anywhere else.

Re: Just Be Rich

#296
post #7

A lot of people who are just as smart and motived as Elon Musk or Steve Jobs will never be able to start their own companies and get rich. Because they have family obligations that take priority. Because they live outside high-income countries. Because they have no access to support network, so when they fail, they fall all the way to bottom. Because they may have made a crippling mistake in their pasts that now prev…

Yet, there are many examples of those who made big from rags to riches. Am not talking about movie stars but business tycoons. Carol Bartz, Dhirubai Ambani, Naval Ravikant, Chamath to name a few. Bartz for instance "Bartz was born in Winona, Minnesota. After losing her mother at a young age, she moved with her brother to her grandparent's farm in Alma, Wisconsin. She took a job at a bank at age 15 to help support her…

"Those who want to break out and go get things done, will find no excuses."

Bullshit. Many people are constrained by things they cannot control.

Re: Just Be Rich

#297

Inequality by itself is not a bad thing. Let's start from there. If 90% of the population had a (sustainable) lifestyle of current dollar millionaires, and the remaining 10% had a (sustainable) lifestyle of dollar billionaires, there would be lots of inequality, but it wouldn't be problematic. Inequality is only bad if you're in a zero-sum game. The rich do have the power to extract rents and "rig the system" to ceme…

> I personally don't believe that an unskilled worker in the US deserves to be paid 10X what an equivalent worker in Bangladesh makes just because they were lucky enough to be born here.

This is a crucial point that gets missed in these debates. Labour price inequality is a driving force of globalisation. That is how Nike pays 1$/day wage to Bangladeshi labourers to manufacture shoes and sell them at $500. And the reason people in Bangladesh are OK with it is because they don't have alternatives and the government is happy to flout all sorts of labour and environmental rules to retain Nike.

To elaborate, there are two conditions under which globalisation works to generate massive profits. Low barrier for the international movement of goods and capital and huge barriers (insurmountable in most cases) for free movement of people across the border. If one follows international trade agreements and immigration policies over last 40-50 years a clear pattern emerges where trade/capital movements restrictions have been continuously whittled down and immigration criteria have been tightened. The net result being incredible profits for multinational corporations.

For sure, the manufacturing countries have benefitted from the newly created jobs. India and China are good examples. China, in fact has been enormously benefitted to an extent where hundreds of millions have emerged out of poverty into middle class. To an extent where China's middle class now is a forced to be reckoned with and many believe the next wave of growth will be driven by Asian consumers.

The flip side though is the divide between rich and poor has reached unheard of levels in, paradoxically, the richest country on earth. Not only that, the poor just don't have a community or governmental support to fall back on. It boggles my mind to see the richest nation's health infrastructure crumble in the wake of COVID-19.

Re: Just Be Rich

#298
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The obvious solution is to build more housing. We know how to do that! The obstacle is politics, not technology or economics.

Not really. Some countries have wealth tax. Some countries don't. It's sensible to park your money somewhere, where it's not taxed. If you build more of it, yes, you will meet some of the housing demand (basically just for the richest), but housing is competing with rich people saving. You need to tax unproductive behavior to rid of it.

If housing values become stagnant or gradually falling, fewer people will use it as a store of value.

Edit: or even if there is a prospect of this being the case.

Re: Just Be Rich

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently people owe capital gains tax on all their assets as if they were sold when they expatriate, which is pretty modest compared to any annual wealth tax. In my case, since being an arbitrageur or market maker means you pay income tax rates on all your gains, the expatriation tax is roughly 0.

The marginal cost is 0. But don't you lose out on a lot of benefits of citizenship as well (visa free travel, etc.)? If you want to trade in US markets you are still liable for US taxes regardless. As a US citizen permanently living abroad, I'm really annoyed at having to file, but I'm not even contemplating renouncing my citizenship. Quite honestly, I pay slightly higher income taxes in the country I live in, and I'…

But are you extremely rich?

Re: Just Be Rich

#300

OP mentions PG’s article arguing against a wealth tax. That article is short, simple and to the point - Modelling a Wealth Tax ( http://www.paulgraham.com/wtax.html ). It is so compelling, but also misleading and wrong. Its not easy to spot the sleights of hand he uses. I wrote more about it here - Modelling a Wealth Tax Correctly ( https://blog.nindalf.com/posts/wealth-tax/ ). And yet, I think the simplicity of PG’s…

You have a glaring mistake in your very first paragraph: 2% of $60 million is $1.2 million, not $120k. The calculations on your Google sheet look correct though.

You're right. Thanks for pointing it out, I've pushed a fix for this.
Post reply on HN