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I'm the guy who bought 259684 Bitcoins for under $3000 yesterday

forum.bitcoin.org

251–260 of 319 posts

Re: I'm the guy who bought 259684 Bitcoins for under $3000 yesterday

#251
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If not my family, then maybe I could go Robin Hood, steal from the rich and sell cheaply to the poor. Note "for value". If the price is unrealistically cheap, the courts can point out that the buyer should have been suspicious. > I can't imagine that it works that way. I can believe that as a buyer of stolen good without knowing they were stolen, you won't be punished. But you will still have to return the stuff. Y…

Another question: what happens if somebody steals my Porsche and sells it to somebody else, but I still have a set of car keys. One day I notice my Porsche parked on the curb, use my keys to enter it and drive away? Is it then a Schrödinger-Porsche that belongs to both me and the person who bought it off the thief? What if I never even noticed it was stolen? In fact, as the thief, why even bother with stealing? Why n…

Think about it this way:

A thief steals a widget from you and sells it to me for $x. I have no reason to suspect it was stolen.

The thief then absconds with the $x and spends it on consumable goods; even if caught, the cash can't be recovered from him.

I currently have the widget and have lost nothing; you're currently the thief's only victim. But if the court takes the widget from me and gives it to you, you're fully compensated, while I am now the victim, because my $x has effectively been stolen with no compensation.

In other words, there are two people who have been victimized by the thief, but all the court can do is re-assign victimhood to one party or the other, which, all things being equal, it should be indifferent to. Allowing the purchaser to keep the widget is basically the same as saying that they'll have no part in deciding who is to be the victim, and allowing circumstance itself to determine that.

But the thief himself is always responsible, and it's entirely appropriate to extract from him as much compensation for both victims as is possible.

Re: I'm the guy who bought 259684 Bitcoins for under $3000 yesterday

#252

The law clearly is on the side of rolling back the transactions. Just like Amazon.com can refuse to fulfill an order for an 50 inch LCD TV that was accidentally priced for $1[1], and a bank can withdraw money from your account that was accidentally deposited there[2], and just like the NYSE can nullify mispriced orders[3], its clear Mt Gox can legally do the same. Transactions can be rolled back and are in the real w…

>The law clearly is on the side of rolling back the transactions

No it isn't, there's no precedent for this because it hasn't existed before. The nearest thing I can think of is when that fake letter was sent out about some company causing the stock to tank. Did all the people who bought the stock when it was low have their transactions rolled back? Because that's what happened here, someone used highly technical means to cause an artificial price dive and one guy was able to take advantage of it. It's not at all clear to me that he should give any of it back.

Re: I'm the guy who bought 259684 Bitcoins for under $3000 yesterday

#254
post #222
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The $1,000 limit is only for unverified accounts. Also, it's possible that the BTC was transferred into the account months ago when it was worth vastly less. Or the BTC was accrued through trading. Or it wasn't a real account...

According to MtGox they attackers ran into the $1000 limit, so it was not a verified account.

This part of their story was made up to cover themselves. The "attackers" didn't run into any limit. They sold off a bunch of bit coins. A legitimate user bought then and then (sensibly) tried to get them out of the system, hitting the limit.

Re: I'm the guy who bought 259684 Bitcoins for under $3000 yesterday

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone on the forum (post 69 http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=20207.msg252979#msg... ) thinks that it's the pooled accounts of all the people on MtGox. Edit (added link) + post 122 as well. http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=20207.120

It's absolutely not that. The Mt. Gox system does not allow orders like that.

yah this comment is not realistic - Mt Gox wouldn't allow itself to be hacked if their "system" was strong enough to disallow "orders like that".

It's not what Mt Gox allows that matters - it's been hacked and compromised specifically to allow people to do things that are not allowed

Re: I'm the guy who bought 259684 Bitcoins for under $3000 yesterday

#256

> Two months ago we migrated from MD5 hashing to freeBSD MD5 salted hashing. The unsalted user accounts in the wild are ones that haven't been accessed in over 2 months and are considered idle. Once we are back up we will have implemented SHA-512 multi-iteration salted hashing and all users will be required to update to a new strong password. I'm quite surprised that a service with accounts holding millions of dollar…

Heh. Do you think your banking institution is better?

Absolutely. For every person who wants to get into Mt Gox there's likely a thousand who'd love to do the same to Citibank et al.

Re: I'm the guy who bought 259684 Bitcoins for under $3000 yesterday

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you had sql injection rights in the database, there would be no need to trade; you would just insert a few nice rows in the db for yourself, mark yourself 'super trusted' and then initiate a withdrawal. This wasn't a SQL injection attack in my opinion.

Hmm, but what if the attacker wasn't in it for the $currency? What if he were in it to destroy Mt. Gox, as they say, "for the lulz"? Making all their customers angry and causing a run on their escrow accounts might just do it more effectively than trying to withdraw whatever could be obtained through their online trading platform.

I agree - I think this has the earmark of a competitor exchange - to crash and destroy Mt. Gox so they can take the business.

Re: I'm the guy who bought 259684 Bitcoins for under $3000 yesterday

#259
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He also mentions that no stolen user has reported, and that its hard to believe a single user held that much money.

It seems possible that Mr (or Mrs) Mt. Gox is playing them all big-time and attempted to do something clever, messed up and got found out. Of course if you can change the rules and roll back the game at will then you can do what you like. /cynical

Given their track record this seems very possible.

Re: I'm the guy who bought 259684 Bitcoins for under $3000 yesterday

#260

That was a great read. If I was Kevin I would give the coins back and not do business with MtGox any longer. It's clear their systems are not secure enough to handle these kind of transfers. It wouldn't surprise me if MtGox was influenced by organized crime, they are in Japan and the Yakuza love these kind of quasi-legal schemes as of late.

According those that forum (same thread) they're only in Japan to escape fallout from a previous scandal.
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