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Just Be Rich

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Re: Just Be Rich

#81

Post by ac29 »

ElSif wrote: post #8
fighterpilot wrote: post #2

The author says that middle-class incomes have dropped since the 1980s, but the associated graph: (1) is pertaining to wealth, not income. (2) shows that middle-class wealth has increased since the 1980s, not "decreased"

Good attempt to use semantic confusion to distract from the point, but his main thesis that 'the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer' stands up to your points.

Thats not what the graphs show, though. It shows the rich getting quite a bit richer, the middle getting a little bit richer, and the poor remaining approximately as poor.

Re: Just Be Rich

#82

Post by reader_mode »

ironman1478 wrote: post #48
d_silin wrote: post #7

A lot of people who are just as smart and motived as Elon Musk or Steve Jobs will never be able to start their own companies and get rich. Because they have family obligations that take priority. Because they live outside high-income countries. Because they have no access to support network, so when they fail, they fall all the way to bottom. Because they may have made a crippling mistake in their pasts that now prev…

This. Poverty doesn't just cause immediate issues it can also cause long term issues that can effect not only adults, but the children who grew up in that environment. This is largely because families in poverty tend to also abuse their kids at higher rates (this includes mental abuse) or at least foster an extremely unhealthy environment due to the stress it causes. So even a generation later it can be difficult for…

I grew up in a family of 7 (4 younger siblings), during civil war, father was into gamling and drinking, mother was unemployed and constantly on the verge of a mental breakdown (understandable given the conditions she was living in). To paint the picture, I have vivid memories of vomiting a boiled onion I ate after not eating for days (I think I was arround 5 years old). And we were poor well into my early 20s untill I left home.

It took a long time to get out of that, and material problems were an issue for sure, but I would say the biggest obstacle for me was that I had no rolemodel and was forced to discover everything on my own. In retrospect I had plenty of opportunities to get out of my situation way earlier and I could have done a lot of things better, and it was pretty common sense to most normal/functioning people - but I didn't have a lot of those arround me.

And that wouldn't change if you gave my parents money - after my grandparents died my mother inherited some land and a house, in a year she managed to squander it away with terrible spending decisions and no long term planning (coupled with the sense of entitlement and expectation that things will just work out).

I also never viewed school as something relevant, teachers were hardly authoritative figures (from my perspective their job was to babysit me and they were poorly paid - why would I accept them as authority on anything).

So I don't think it's something you can solve with money alone, having functional parents is always going to set you up to do better in life.

Re: Just Be Rich

#83

Post by atweiden »

baron816 wrote: post #58

Inequality by itself is not a bad thing. Let's start from there. If 90% of the population had a (sustainable) lifestyle of current dollar millionaires, and the remaining 10% had a (sustainable) lifestyle of dollar billionaires, there would be lots of inequality, but it wouldn't be problematic. Inequality is only bad if you're in a zero-sum game. The rich do have the power to extract rents and "rig the system" to ceme…

> Inequality is only bad if you're in a zero-sum game

The French Revolution disproves this.

Re: Just Be Rich

#84

Post by stickfigure »

ashneo76 wrote: post #4

A very well thought out and articulated essay. Essential to get the billionaires of the pedestal that they have perched on. Put your money where your mouth is and fund the wealth tax. Personally, I vehemently disagree with the 10x programmer narrative in IT. It fuels " management provides more value than replaceable workers". If there were no workers, then management is just sitting there coming up with random ideas.…

> I vehemently disagree with the 10x programmer narrative in IT. It fuels "management provides more value than replaceable workers".

Eh? It's the 10X programmer narrative, not the 10X manager narrative. The lesson is that some workers are vastly less replaceable than others, which is quite empowering for talent.

Re: Just Be Rich

#86

Post by Empact »

runarberg wrote: post #59
raspasov wrote: post #51

Every time I see wealth inequality being talked about, I remember this quote: "It's not greed that drives the world, but envy.".

I hate that quote. Personally I’m not envious of the rich, I despise them. I hate the fact that there are rich people, not because I want to be one some day, but because they ruin the party for the rest of us. The climate disaster is disproportionately the fault of the rich, yet it is the poor who are disproportionately affected by it. I don’t envy the rich. When I see the rich, I see pitiful humans that work too muc…

Why the bitterness? You could blame the politicians just as well for the climate disaster, or the corporations, why the wealthy?[1] What do you know of their family life or love of dogs?

I think the rich are not who you think - if you put less energy into hating them you may have more time to improve your own life, e.g. by studying personal finance or investing: https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/wiki/commontopics

https://www.joshuakennon.com/add-jack-macdonald-list-secret-...

[1] Incidentally, one of the best climate mitigations, a source fuels carbon tax, has been blocked not because the wealthy but because its supposed impact on the poor (limiting travel & commuting). One hopes the Carbon Tax & Dividend proposals will gain traction, but how can they, when they pay out to the people, instead of the special interests? https://citizensclimatelobby.org

Re: Just Be Rich

#87

Post by missedthecue »

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #56

"tons of people are struggling to meet their basic needs" That's just not true. There are billions less people struggling to meet their basic needs now, than there was in 1982. World is much more equal now than it was in 1982.

Even in the US, the bottom quartile of Americans makes more money than they did in 1982, adjusted for inflation.

Re: Just Be Rich

#88

Post by onion2k »

reader_mode wrote: post #82
ironman1478 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Poverty doesn't just cause immediate issues it can also cause long term issues that can effect not only adults, but the children who grew up in that environment. This is largely because families in poverty tend to also abuse their kids at higher rates (this includes mental abuse) or at least foster an extremely unhealthy environment due to the stress it causes. So even a generation later it can be difficult for…

I grew up in a family of 7 (4 younger siblings), during civil war, father was into gamling and drinking, mother was unemployed and constantly on the verge of a mental breakdown (understandable given the conditions she was living in). To paint the picture, I have vivid memories of vomiting a boiled onion I ate after not eating for days (I think I was arround 5 years old). And we were poor well into my early 20s untill…

I don't think anyone is suggesting problems can be solved with money alone. What's very obvious is that a capable person without resources will struggle while a much less capable person who has the safety net of a wealthy background can still be successful. No one is suggesting it's guaranteed though.

Re: Just Be Rich

#89

Post by rob74 »

reader_mode wrote: post #82
ironman1478 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Poverty doesn't just cause immediate issues it can also cause long term issues that can effect not only adults, but the children who grew up in that environment. This is largely because families in poverty tend to also abuse their kids at higher rates (this includes mental abuse) or at least foster an extremely unhealthy environment due to the stress it causes. So even a generation later it can be difficult for…

I grew up in a family of 7 (4 younger siblings), during civil war, father was into gamling and drinking, mother was unemployed and constantly on the verge of a mental breakdown (understandable given the conditions she was living in). To paint the picture, I have vivid memories of vomiting a boiled onion I ate after not eating for days (I think I was arround 5 years old). And we were poor well into my early 20s untill…

That's the classic "you shouldn't give money to poor people, they are just going to spend it on alcohol, drugs etc." argument. This ignores that there are a lot of people who are unable to make ends meet despite having not one but sometimes several jobs. Maybe people would be less stressed if they knew they wouldn't lose their job if their car (>20 years old, which they can't afford to repair) breaks down...

Re: Just Be Rich

#90

Post by dignick »

baron816 wrote: post #58

Inequality by itself is not a bad thing. Let's start from there. If 90% of the population had a (sustainable) lifestyle of current dollar millionaires, and the remaining 10% had a (sustainable) lifestyle of dollar billionaires, there would be lots of inequality, but it wouldn't be problematic. Inequality is only bad if you're in a zero-sum game. The rich do have the power to extract rents and "rig the system" to ceme…

> If 90% of the population had a (sustainable) lifestyle of current dollar millionaires, and the remaining 10% had a (sustainable) lifestyle of dollar billionaires, there would be lots of inequality, but it wouldn't be problematic.

You are looking at this from a world where that isn’t the case. Money would be worth less in that scenario, and that 10% owns 99% of the wealth, which is still going to cause problems.

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