Facebook's 'Clear History' Tool Doesn't Clear Shit (2020) • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook's 'Clear History' Tool Doesn't Clear Shit (2020)

#21

Post by still_grokking » Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 4:43 PM UTC

Rygian wrote: post #11

Jaygles wrote: post #2

If someone decided to meticulously track everything I do. Follow me wherever I went. Put a GPS tracker on my car to see everywhere I visit. Peep inside my windows to see what websites I browse. Look over my shoulder at the grocery store to see what items I buy. I would consider that stalking and attempt to file a restraining order against that person. Can I file a restraining order against Facebook? Or Google?

If you're a European citizen, then you can invoke your legal right to erasure.

How does the EU enforce the deletion of said data from Facebook servers standing on US ground?

How do I enforce deletion if I have unwittingly only a "shadow account" in Facebook?

Re: Facebook's 'Clear History' Tool Doesn't Clear Shit (2020)

#22

Post by user764743 » Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 4:47 PM UTC

There is also a reason websites have stopped using the term 'delete' and are using 'clear' instead. Because clearing something does not imply that it's gone unlike with delete, just out of view.

Re: Facebook's 'Clear History' Tool Doesn't Clear Shit (2020)

#23

Post by lprd » Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 4:47 PM UTC

Color me surprised. I kept hoping that with one of these privacy leaks, or any of the other atrocities that FB has committed, it would've triggered the beginning of their demise...but nope. Their stock prices just keep rising, and people continue to use the platform.

Re: Facebook's 'Clear History' Tool Doesn't Clear Shit (2020)

#24

Post by solaarphunk » Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 4:50 PM UTC

still_grokking wrote: post #21

Rygian wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're a European citizen, then you can invoke your legal right to erasure.

How does the EU enforce the deletion of said data from Facebook servers standing on US ground? How do I enforce deletion if I have unwittingly only a "shadow account" in Facebook?

California Privacy Act also gives you similar rights.

Re: Facebook's 'Clear History' Tool Doesn't Clear Shit (2020)

#25

Post by passivate » Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 4:53 PM UTC

Can Facebook legitimately pivot into any other service/product and still make money? It seems like they're always going to be at odds with privacy/public trust.

One one hand, it is extremely sad to see talented engineers at Google/FB work hard on products designed to spy on people, but OTOH, I suppose it could be far worse if these were companies who simply sold our data.

Re: Facebook's 'Clear History' Tool Doesn't Clear Shit (2020)

#26

Post by awestley » Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 4:58 PM UTC

passivate wrote: post #25

Can Facebook legitimately pivot into any other service/product and still make money? It seems like they're always going to be at odds with privacy/public trust. One one hand, it is extremely sad to see talented engineers at Google/FB work hard on products designed to spy on people, but OTOH, I suppose it could be far worse if these were companies who simply sold our data.

Would it be worse? A big part of what companies like FB and Google do is get people "hooked" (A good book on this very topic) on sharing that data. In effect willingly revealing more and more data about themselves. If it were simply being sold I don't think people would divulge as much information.

Re: Facebook's 'Clear History' Tool Doesn't Clear Shit (2020)

#27

Post by c7DJTLrn » Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 4:58 PM UTC

Rygian wrote: post #11

Jaygles wrote: post #2

If someone decided to meticulously track everything I do. Follow me wherever I went. Put a GPS tracker on my car to see everywhere I visit. Peep inside my windows to see what websites I browse. Look over my shoulder at the grocery store to see what items I buy. I would consider that stalking and attempt to file a restraining order against that person. Can I file a restraining order against Facebook? Or Google?

If you're a European citizen, then you can invoke your legal right to erasure.

It's not a silver bullet of course. Discord, for instance, just 'anonymises' message history by renaming your account to Deleted User. But most people's message history is enough to deanonymise them, making that completely null and void. If you ask for your messages to actually be deleted they will refuse your request.

I published a tool on GitHub for deleting message history in the most efficient way I could find. Yet users of the tool sometimes get their accounts banned because Discord's TOS prohibits unauthorised use of their API. I speculate this is because they don't want custom clients which don't send back telemetry.

Discord is either tone-deaf to common privacy concerns or they're completely conscious of them and don't want people to clear their message history.

Re: Facebook's 'Clear History' Tool Doesn't Clear Shit (2020)

#28

Post by christkv » Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 5:02 PM UTC

c7DJTLrn wrote: post #27

Rygian wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're a European citizen, then you can invoke your legal right to erasure.

It's not a silver bullet of course. Discord, for instance, just 'anonymises' message history by renaming your account to Deleted User. But most people's message history is enough to deanonymise them, making that completely null and void. If you ask for your messages to actually be deleted they will refuse your request. I published a tool on GitHub for deleting message history in the most efficient way I could find. Y…

I don’t think this will be enough in case they get sued if the messages contain personably identifiable information they will have serious problems.

Re: Facebook's 'Clear History' Tool Doesn't Clear Shit (2020)

#29

Post by 0134340 » Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 5:02 PM UTC

bobthechef wrote: post #19

gundisclosed wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“When you delete content, it's no longer visible to other users; however, it may continue to exist elsewhere on our systems” This is from FB’s terms and conditions, so I guess they can still keep the data. If you agree to any other website’s terms and conditions saying “any third party can track you”, you have again given permission.

The problem with this interpretation is that valid contracts depend, among other things, on informed consent and on the legality of what's being required, meaning you can't trick someone into being bound to terms they never really accepted or sufficiently understood and you can't bind them to illegal terms. In this case, most people haven't read the Facebook terms of service and it is probably unreasonable to expect…

>Nobody with power wants it.

Or is too influenced by big technopoly lobbying dollars.

Re: Facebook's 'Clear History' Tool Doesn't Clear Shit (2020)

#30

Post by benlivengood » Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 5:10 PM UTC

still_grokking wrote: post #21

Rygian wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're a European citizen, then you can invoke your legal right to erasure.

How does the EU enforce the deletion of said data from Facebook servers standing on US ground? How do I enforce deletion if I have unwittingly only a "shadow account" in Facebook?

Fine the Facebook subsidiaries incorporated in the EU. Or completely ban them from doing business, which prevents advertisers in the EU from giving them money.