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RMS addresses the free software community

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Re: RMS addresses the free software community

#91

Post by singlow »

whatshisface wrote: post #35
heinrichhartman wrote: post #15

I think message is genuine, and sympathize with his stand. His work on free software has been invaluable and shaped the software world in a good way. To paint the whole person as a "bad guy" ("terrible person") in the context of the latest developments always seemed off to me. However, usually apologies in this context backfire. Everything that you say about this can and will be used against you. This has happened to…

> However, usually apologies in this context backfire. As pointed out by other commenters, this is more of a defense, or an explanation, than it is an apology.

A defense is not the most common definition of apology in modern usage, but it is the most historical meaning of the word, and most aligned with its Greek etymology. This letter is very much a hybrid of both a defense and a mea culpa, the two modern usages of apology. He acknowledges some shortcomings which were partially responsible for him being criticized, but also explicitly rejects the accusations that he believes were unfounded.

Re: RMS addresses the free software community

#92

Post by imwillofficial »

henearkr wrote: post #56
stusmall wrote: post #39

"Later in life, I discovered that some people had negative reactions to my behavior, which I did not even know about. Tending to be direct and honest with my thoughts, I sometimes made others uncomfortable or even offended them -- especially women. This was not a choice: I didn't understand the problem enough to know which choices there were. Sometimes I lost my temper because I didn't have the social skills to avoid…

> These social skills are crucial in this role. Absolutely not. He is a theorist (if not the theorist) of Free Software. His role is paramount, he is literally the only human completely implacable regarding the degrees of freedom that should be guaranteed to algorithms and software. The whole movement he started has as well spurred the Creative Commons movement, that is an application to the same principles more spec…

So unwanted sexual advances on women or ok for theorists?

Re: RMS addresses the free software community

#93

Post by nextaccountic »

stusmall wrote: post #39

"Later in life, I discovered that some people had negative reactions to my behavior, which I did not even know about. Tending to be direct and honest with my thoughts, I sometimes made others uncomfortable or even offended them -- especially women. This was not a choice: I didn't understand the problem enough to know which choices there were. Sometimes I lost my temper because I didn't have the social skills to avoid…

I agree rms is unfit to be a leader, but as a member of the FSF board he is fit to give his opinion on what GPLv4 should be if it ever gets released. I'm trust FSF to do the right thing on "or later" licenses if rms is onboard, but when I see Red Hat removing funding to get him out of the board, well, this give me pause.

https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/red-hat-statement-about-richa...

Re: RMS addresses the free software community

#95

Post by ocdtrekkie »

stusmall wrote: post #39

"Later in life, I discovered that some people had negative reactions to my behavior, which I did not even know about. Tending to be direct and honest with my thoughts, I sometimes made others uncomfortable or even offended them -- especially women. This was not a choice: I didn't understand the problem enough to know which choices there were. Sometimes I lost my temper because I didn't have the social skills to avoid…

Exactly, there was no reason the FSF board couldn't message him to seek advice without him holding a leadership position. I don't care if people contribute, but positions of leadership should be conveyed to people who set a positive example.

I think there's a massive difference with RMS in that he excuses his actions, but doesn't show much intent or ability to change them. Another FOSS leader, Linus Torvalds, did a 180 when it became clear his behavior wasn't tolerable anymore, and I think Linus showed a level of leadership in that which RMS cannot.

I have my own issues, and I freely admit I probably don't belong in a leadership role. Stallman should do the same, and put himself in an advising-only capacity.

Re: RMS addresses the free software community

#96

Post by TheRealDunkirk »

imwillofficial wrote: post #82

RMS is a statutory rape apologist, and a defender of a pedophile. As well as making young women creeped out with unwanted advances. Is this who we want to glorify?

> RMS is a statutory rape apologist, and a defender of a pedophile.

Wasn't the entire point of his post to refute this interpretation of what happened? Does no one else notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Re: RMS addresses the free software community

#97

Post by meowface »

b215826 wrote: post #51
DanBC wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an entirely dishonest framing of the articles which do not claim RMS defended Epstein, but do claim (correctly) that he defended Minsky.

What part of "Renowned MIT Scientist Defends Epstein" (the title of the Daily Beast article) do you have trouble understanding?

I'd also say the Vice headline is almost as dishonest, even if it's not saying he defended Epstein: "Famed Computer Scientist Richard Stallman Described Epstein Victims As 'Entirely Willing'".

Stallman did use those two scare-quoted words, but the headline is trying to paint it in a completely, fundamentally different light from the point he was attempting to make. He may have been insensitive (as he says in this statement), but he wasn't arguing anything close to what that headline is trying to imply.

It's not just a typical case of a misleading headline taking a quote out of context. There isn't any conceivable context where it's justified to call rape and sex trafficking victims entirely willing; of course the victims are by definition unwilling.

So it's an especially wrong and deceptive portrayal of what he was saying. They wrote it that way knowing the audience's immediate gut reaction will be the last sentence of the previous paragraph.

Re: RMS addresses the free software community

#98

Post by jancsika »

That's great, but the problem seems to be RMS's disruption of development activities. This doesn't change that. For example:

https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-01/msg00...

Imagine taking the time to publicly explain to an out-of-practice dev why some technical feature is needed, then being accused of a "pressure campaign" that requires the out-of-practice dev to consult privately, "with people I have confidence in."

Gnu devs have an impressive amount of patience and grace to put up with that. But I see a lot of other FOSS devs try to replicate RMS's unnecessarily aggressive rhetoric. They often shoot themselves in the foot with it, disrespecting and consequently losing valuable contributors who are otherwise aligned philosophically with the project in every way.

That kind of disruption is at odds with every value FOSS devs claim to hold-- meritocratic, decentralized, etc. Even Debian put the hammer down when an out-of-practice dev tried to use permissions to disrupt the work of a new dev. Nobody sane and self-respecting should put up with this kind of behavior.

Edit: clarification

Re: RMS addresses the free software community

#99

Post by pseudalopex »

geofft wrote: post #89
b215826 wrote: post #10

Now, would the journalists who wrote articles with titles that are a variation of "RMS defended Epstein" [1,2] apologize or at least correct their articles? Also, now that RMS has explicitly clarified his position on these issues, can the people who leveraged his "silence" and "bad behavior" to oust him from the FSF at least admit that their motive was less about making the free-software movement welcoming and was mo…

RMS disaffiliated from MIT in the '80s (see "Commencing the project" in https://www.gnu.org/gnu/thegnuproject.en.html ), so I'm not sure that any headline saying "Famed MIT Computer Scientist..." to refer to him was interested in accuracy in the first place.

He held a position at MIT until 2019.[1]

[1] https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#16_September...

Re: RMS addresses the free software community

#100

Post by AzzieElbab »

secondcoming wrote: post #27
DanBC wrote: post #12

> Some have described me as being "tone-deaf," and that is fair. With my difficulty in understanding social cues, that tends to happen. For instance, I defended Professor Minsky on an M.I.T. mailing list after someone leaped to the conclusion that he was just guilty as Jeffrey Epstein. To my surprise, some thought my message defended Epstein. As I had stated previously, Epstein is a serial rapist, and rapists should…

I don't recall it ever having been proven that Minksy had sex with anyone. I'm obviously open to being corrected on this.

That is not how these things work nowadays. Journalists simply reprint each other until everyone accepts their theories as facts
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