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French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

reuters.com

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Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#331

Post by dopidopHN »

thiht wrote: post #101
dopidopHN wrote: post #96

To be noted : we have a extensive fast train system. As a user, I prefer to take the train. It’s faster, more confortable and overall less hassle. ( you get from city center to city center, no security check; you can move around, use your mobile hotspot or the train wifi ) The one use case is going from Paris to Toulouse for instance. It’s take a day of train. But even Paris-Marseille is less than 3h at this point. P…

Rennes-Toulouse is 10 hours by train, because it transits through Paris. It's 2 hours by plane. If you're in Paris, you can go anywhere easily. If you're not in Paris, some cities are hard to reach by train.

I’m acutely aware of that , having grow up in economically devastated country-side where you have to drive 2h to reach the first of those fast train.

It’s infuriating. But oh well, that how the country has been design.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#332

Post by dopidopHN »

raverbashing wrote: post #128
thiht wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rennes-Toulouse is 10 hours by train, because it transits through Paris. It's 2 hours by plane. If you're in Paris, you can go anywhere easily. If you're not in Paris, some cities are hard to reach by train.

As per TFA (which apparently nobody read) > to abolish domestic flights on routes than can be covered by train in under two-and-a-half hours

Thank you. I’ve been commenting a few time that yes. All train go thought Paris first and it’s fucked up. But also it’s not relevant to this particular conversation

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#333

Post by dagw »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #4

There is no reason to fly short distance if you want to go from city center to city center. However, if you're already arriving or leaving on a long distance flight, the whole overhead of getting to/from/through the airport disappears and those 1.5 hours start making a difference. I think forcing companies to advertise more honest flight durations and prices could make a huge difference. If the airline tells you that…

There is no reason to fly short distance if you want to go from city center to city center.

I used to travel quite a bit between two cities where the option was a 3 hour high speed train and a ~45 minute flight. And while the train was great in theory (fast, comfortable, free wifi etc.) it wasn't quite reliable enough. Being 1-2 hours late was common enough that you basically had to take it into consideration when making plans.

If it was an important meeting I would normally fly in the morning to increase the chance of being on time, and take the train home in the afternoon when I could just chill with a glass of wine and watch a movie and being an hour+ delayed wasn't a big deal.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#334

Post by chrisseaton »

slowmotiony wrote: post #249
chrisseaton wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'll have to fly into Paris and add 3 hours to my already-long trip and make a totally separate train booking, and worry about if lose the train ticket if the flight is delayed? I don't know if you're American, but I think you've just got funny ideas about how trains work. You don't really need an advance booking - you just turn up, buy a ticket, and take the train. It's not a big deal - they go every hour or so be…

Oh, you arrived without a ticket? Sorry, covid restrictions, only one person per wagon and the tickets have been sold out a few days ago. Enjoy your indefinite waiting for a free spot. I feel like you might not have taken the train anywhere within the last year or two.

Obviously almost nobody should be taking any trains in Europe at the moment - that's a given.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#335

Post by Parae »

benhurmarcel wrote: post #329
netfortius wrote: post #185

In France I would never consider flying, when I could take the TGV. The level of comfort of a 1st class train ticket vs an economy airflight (space and positioning of seat) + ability to move around + enjoying the scenery + no worries about the airport hassles / security checkpoints / luggage check-in and check-out, and transportation from airport to the center of the city, always made the choice very easy fo me.

It’s a lot more expensive though. Nice if you can afford it.

It's about the same price. With a TGV Max card it's even cheaper to take the TGV.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#336

Post by s_gourichon »

mam2 wrote: post #320
vladvasiliu wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not fully correct. CDG and ORY have integrated (or close enough) high speed rail stations that serve other large cities, although that's probably not a great bet. Most importantly, however, the law being discussed doesn't ban connecting flights. So a NYC -> Le Mans (say) would be allowed to fly through CDG, even though Le Mans is at around one hour by high-speed rail. However, as there would be less traffic on…

> CDG and ORY have integrated (or close enough) high speed rail stations that serve other large cities Uh ? Since when and where ?

CDG (North of Paris) is on the railway that joins Brussels, Paris, Rennes, Tours, Bordeaux and a number of other major places in France. ORY has a connection with Paris suburban railway network, no direct access to one distance train.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#337

Post by vladvasiliu »

s_gourichon wrote: post #336
mam2 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> CDG and ORY have integrated (or close enough) high speed rail stations that serve other large cities Uh ? Since when and where ?

CDG (North of Paris) is on the railway that joins Brussels, Paris, Rennes, Tours, Bordeaux and a number of other major places in France. ORY has a connection with Paris suburban railway network, no direct access to one distance train.

Right. ORY is very close to Massy TGV (2 stops or so on the suburban train) which goes to the west (Rennes) and south (not sur if Bordeaux or Lyon or both).

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#338

Post by pnt12 »

haakonhr wrote: post #79
ur-whale wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure which way you lean here. Are you saying you are on the side of banning stuff, or do you think it's a bad idea?

The ban is kind of the equivalent of a quick, hacky fix of some bug. It is better than nothing, but in general I'm against banning stuff as the problem is that the flights are too cheap, partially due to reasons like tax exemption on fuel.

There are also two bugs related to people, and they're hard to fix:

- short term costs are more noticeable than long term costs: saving money VS saving the planet

- tragedies of the common are hard to fix: we all need to save the planet, but others are not minding it, so I might as well ignore it and at least save some money too

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#339

Post by ashtonkem »

mkoubaa wrote: post #276
ashtonkem wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuel taxes tend to hit rural people pretty hard, because they drive a lot of miles and most of it is non-optional. If you live in Paris you can just decide not to drive, which won't work as well for you in rural France.

This post is about flights, not fuel taxes

They were talking about consumption taxes, SUVs being an oblique reference to fuel consumption, and I’m pointing out that these sometimes are a burden on the rural poor who are least positioned to pay.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#340

Post by sofixa »

prostoalex wrote: post #241
ajross wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no reason to fly short distance if you want to go from city center to city center. In France. In nations like the US (outside the DC-to-Boston corridor anyway) without a well-designed and -maintained rail infastructure, 1-2 hour flights are routine and not really replaceable with other options. Infrastructure investment pays off for decades and decades, and Europe has done really well here. > However, if y…

The problem is hub-and-spoke approach of many national carriers (Air France included). Covid travel restrictions aside, one can buy an air itinerary that gets them from NYC to Bordeaux (or Nice, or Nantes, or Toulouse, or Marseille, or Lyon, or Strasbourg) all via CDG. That airport train station is set up to transport the passengers from the airport to the city center, not inter-city travel. Air France is right to co…

> That airport train station is set up to transport the passengers from the airport to the city center, not inter-city travel.

Which is why in France and other countries, train stations at airports have high speed rail service to other cities. It's the case at CDG( Paris), Lyon St Exupéry, Amsterdam Schiphol. That way you get there via plane, switch to high-speed rail, and get to your final destination.

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