Live data from Hacker News

Anxiety is in your body, not your mind

elemental.medium.com

181–190 of 243 posts

Re: Anxiety is in your body, not your mind

#181

I noticed as young adult that I didn’t really worry or consciously stress, but my body had somewhat predictable reactions to situations that I would realize, in hindsight, were highly stressful. Those physical reactions sucked, and as they got worse over time, it really concerned me. At some point I was encouraged to go to CBT, which I did, but honestly it made things worse. I became hyper aware of how anxious I was…

"Meditation helps with just about anything. Therapy helps you with figuring out why the hell you don't meditate"

Re: Anxiety is in your body, not your mind

#182
post #59
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminded me of a passage from Sapiens on Buddah. "...Gautama Buddah found that there was a way to exit this vicious circle. If, when the mind experiences something pleasant or unpleasant, it simply understand things as they are, then there is no suffering. If you experience sadness without craving that the sadness go away, you continue to feel sadness but you do not suffer from it. There can actually be richness in t…

I wonder if that is why we like music. We can experience emotions without worrying that they are permanent or need to be resolved.

This touched a chord. For me it's a combination of both music and dance.

It's amazing to feel emotions I'd normally not want to express in everyday life and just let them flow out. Rage, jealousy, lust. The music is such a great trigger to tap into these primal feelings, and then expressing them through movement just feels incredible. It feels real and amazingly cathartic, but the transience of the experience leaves no consequences.

I guess that's why there's the saying dance like nobody's watching. Because for many people, that expression of feeling strips us down and leaves our feelings exposed and vulnerable .

Re: Anxiety is in your body, not your mind

#183
post #134
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I recommend working with a qualified teacher in a spiritual tradition. These practitioners will have extensive training (at least decades) and will be drawing from a few thousand years of careful study of the effects of meditation (as found in Buddhist and Yogic/Hindu documents and oral traditions). How many teachers actually have this, and how can one know that the one you’ve chosen is one of them?

I loved loopz's answer, but it's also important to grapple with the fact that you can never truly know whether a teacher is good. The path is always a risk. It's best to learn as much as you can and assess for yourself as you go. In any event, the common wisdom is "you'll know." Or to put it plainly, do you like the person and feel like they have something to teach you? I like the term "spiritual friend," because it'…

I like the term "dangerous friend": https://www.shambhala.com/dangerous-friend-466.html

Re: Anxiety is in your body, not your mind

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read Marcus Aurelius, Meditations. Written around 2000, it is surprising how many of his verses are relevant today. These are translations of the original, so have picked up some contemporary interpretation. "If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the thing itself, but to your estimate of it; and this you have the power to revoke at any moment." "The happiness of your life depends upon t…

All this stuff really ignores some real advice that really works. Anxiety comes from a lack of competence, confidence, or self-awareness. Lack any or all (and we all lack them to some extent) and you’re more nervous. Get experience talking, presenting, comfort with how you look and sound, practice humor, gauge if you can maintain an audience. These are all practicable things. You can work on them. I think meditation…

> Anxiety comes from a lack of competence, confidence, or self-awareness.

This is oversimplified, anxiety isn’t just about social situations. My anxiety is none of these but comes from an overwhelming awareness of my own mortality.

I don’t feel like I’m going to die today or tomorrow, but the knowledge that I will die one day and wipe out all memory of me as I am now is permanently terrifying to me. I really believe that almost everyone else has some part of their brain to suppress this fact, that I am missing.

Re: Anxiety is in your body, not your mind

#186

I noticed as young adult that I didn’t really worry or consciously stress, but my body had somewhat predictable reactions to situations that I would realize, in hindsight, were highly stressful. Those physical reactions sucked, and as they got worse over time, it really concerned me. At some point I was encouraged to go to CBT, which I did, but honestly it made things worse. I became hyper aware of how anxious I was…

It works even for physical pain. The way I see it, wanting the pain (or the anxiety) to go a away creates tension, which adds to the existing issue. You then want the tension and original pain to go away, so add on more tension… and it gets worse and worse. Not only does tension itself lead to pain in the long run, but if you tense around a painful place, you also immediately make it more painful.

By accepting the original issue, you are left with it only, and not all the added tension, which is much more bearable.

Re: Anxiety is in your body, not your mind

#187
post #58

I noticed as young adult that I didn’t really worry or consciously stress, but my body had somewhat predictable reactions to situations that I would realize, in hindsight, were highly stressful. Those physical reactions sucked, and as they got worse over time, it really concerned me. At some point I was encouraged to go to CBT, which I did, but honestly it made things worse. I became hyper aware of how anxious I was…

Reminded me of a passage from Sapiens on Buddah. "...Gautama Buddah found that there was a way to exit this vicious circle. If, when the mind experiences something pleasant or unpleasant, it simply understand things as they are, then there is no suffering. If you experience sadness without craving that the sadness go away, you continue to feel sadness but you do not suffer from it. There can actually be richness in t…

Sapiens is an apt book to quote for this.

There is also a chapter on brain chemicals:

"Some air-conditioning systems are set at twenty-five degrees Celsius. Others are set at twenty degrees. Human happiness conditioning systems also differ from person to person. On a scale from one to ten, some people are born with a cheerful biochemical system that allows their mood to swing between levels six and ten, stabilising with time at eight. Such a person is quite happy even if she lives in an alienating big city, loses all her money in a stock-exchange crash and is diagnosed with diabetes. Other people are cursed with a gloomy biochemistry that swings between three and seven and stabilises at five. Such an unhappy person remains depressed even if she enjoys the support of a tight-knit community, wins millions in the lottery and is as healthy as an Olympic athlete. Indeed, even if our gloomy friend wins $50,000,000 in the morning, discovers the cure for both AIDS and cancer by noon, makes peace between Israelis and Palestinians that afternoon, and then in the evening reunites with her long-lost child who disappeared years ago – she would still be incapable of experiencing anything beyond level seven happiness. Her brain is simply not built for exhilaration, come what may." https://erenow.net/common/sapiensbriefhistory/102.php

Re: Anxiety is in your body, not your mind

#188
> As Stephen Porges, PhD, a psychologist and the creator of the Polyvagal Theory

Funny. Just yesterday I googled "polyvagal theory" after accidentally stumbling upon it after googling for "HRV training" after hearing about it from Tim Ferriss on his youtube channel.

Anyway - a quick research yielded that PVT and Mr. Porges are both rather questionable. [1]

> The thinking brain isn’t what decides whether we’re stressed, whether we’re feeling threatened or challenged, whether we’re going to turn stress on, whether we’re going to turn emotions on,

I'd question that and bring thought loops forward as a counterexample. You can very well intensify a state of anxiety by dwelling on some thought.

> So if you want to track your anxiety, your body, not your thoughts, will be your most accurate map.

That is true, though - after all anxiety is a physical sensation. I can attest to that waking up now for several weeks almost every day with stomach aching, increased heart rate and shallow breathing.

> The problem is that when it comes to regulating our nervous system after a stress response (read: anxiety), our thinking brain is the absolute worst tool for the job

I'd also questin that. It's true that the thinking brain on its own will never find a solution for something like anxiety. But you need the thinking brain to identify the problem and come up with a solution. If the thinking brain is a hammer then your guts are a screw driver.

> talk therapy analyzing all the reasons you’re anxious, this is probably a hard pill to swallow. Not only did all that talking not do much to alleviate anxiety, but it could also even have made it more acute.

Talk therapy addresses the thinking brain and is hence limited. But a good talking therapy is not just being experienced by exchanging words. If the therapist is worth her money she'll connect on an emotional level.

> Is there any role for talk therapy, or trying to think logically about your anxiety? Absolutely. But only once your body is regulated, Stanley says: “After we have helped our survival brain feel safe and stable, then we can work on our thoughts.

This attitude is symptomatic of our misguided medical profession which always seeks to compartmentalize and modularize instead of integrate and connect. Both approaches can go very well hand in hand.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvagal_theory#Criticism

Re: Anxiety is in your body, not your mind

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All this stuff really ignores some real advice that really works. Anxiety comes from a lack of competence, confidence, or self-awareness. Lack any or all (and we all lack them to some extent) and you’re more nervous. Get experience talking, presenting, comfort with how you look and sound, practice humor, gauge if you can maintain an audience. These are all practicable things. You can work on them. I think meditation…

> Anxiety comes from a lack of competence, confidence, or self-awareness. This is oversimplified, anxiety isn’t just about social situations. My anxiety is none of these but comes from an overwhelming awareness of my own mortality. I don’t feel like I’m going to die today or tomorrow, but the knowledge that I will die one day and wipe out all memory of me as I am now is permanently terrifying to me. I really believe…

find out who the real "me" is, and that fear will no longer hold

Re: Anxiety is in your body, not your mind

#190
I personally think this was a very interesting reading, and after having tried multiple solutions for anxiety (prescribed pills, talk therapy, tips like focusing on our environment -- as explained in the highlighted paragraph), and being surrounded by people having also tried several solutions, it must be known that not everyone will react the same way to each of them.

While the content of this article will not make everyone agree, I think it's particularly important nowadays to pay attention to our mental health at least as much as we do to our physical health, and it's good to see this topic trending on HN.

Post reply on HN