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Anxiety is in your body, not your mind

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Re: Anxiety is in your body, not your mind

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why you need to do yoga. Relaxing the body is so important and Meditation, without yoga, can be harmful. Simple, long holding, hatha yoga, beginning with deep part by part body relaxation and pranayama prepares you for meditation and allows you to handle the energies that can be released during mediation. So much stress is held in the body. Western productization of more eastern traditional practices unfortuna…

> if you do mediation, you also need yoga Not sure Gautama Buddha did yoga? Don't get me wrong, i am not against yoga, but wondering if great saints who never did yoga also attained greater heights including moksha..

Haha, i don't know right now. but from the point of view that yoga is a systematiztion of techniques that is useful for connecting to energy, correcting the flow of and balancing the energy in the body, and opening the channels in the body to allow it to handle higher bandwidth of different sorts of energies safely, I suppose that perhaps these great saints already knew how to do that on some level even if they weren't following sort of formal practices. Of course that's just a theory we'd have to look back into the past to make sure.

another perspective is maybe they discovered or were taught techniques even more advanced than what's commonly know as yoga. Maybe that helped them somehow attain their heights as you said.

From another point of view I think there's an idea that yoga is probably for the common people, you know, everyone. Maybe there's some exceptional people whose bodies are already highly tuned somehow and they sort of don't need to do that...could be possible. But that would probably be rare like Olympic level athlete rare. And maybe some of those great saints weren't even human. So maybe techniques for the everyperson human form don't apply to them.

Harder to speculate about those things than it is to know that yoga is good for me from experience, and have a theory for why correct yoga would be good for most others as well, especially meditators.

Aside from what i already said, biomedically the long holding, and the precise poses, sooth and calm the parasympathetic nervous system, which helps correctly regulate many other systems, and help massage and promoting flow in the lymphatic system, i think. Even leaving aside the energy perspectives, relaxedly holding poses for a handful of breaths, is a great tune up for your body.

Re: Anxiety is in your body, not your mind

#122

Who in their right mind would take their psychological advice from a fiction writer?!? First, no, anxiety is not in your body. Fear, just like any other emotion is in your brain. You might get physiological responses in the form of chemicals in your body. That is an effect, not a cause. Second, neocortex is not "thinking brain," its role is to manage social interactions. Cognition is a small part of that. Third, mind…

> First, no, anxiety is not in your body. Fear, just like any other emotion is in your brain. You might get physiological responses in the form of chemicals in your body. That is an effect, not a cause. Do you have a source for this? I remember seeing an article on (I think) HN about research indicating gut bacteria influences emotions which would seem to me to indicate cause rather than effect. Perhaps it’s impossib…

Gut bacteria affects brain, by migrating from guts to brain - IT DOES NOT AFFECT BRAIN, WHEN IT IS IN GUT!

FFS, just, read those articles properly. I've read it as well, but somehow I don't think, that my gut is as smart as my brain...

Re: Anxiety is in your body, not your mind

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why you need to do yoga. Relaxing the body is so important and Meditation, without yoga, can be harmful. Simple, long holding, hatha yoga, beginning with deep part by part body relaxation and pranayama prepares you for meditation and allows you to handle the energies that can be released during mediation. So much stress is held in the body. Western productization of more eastern traditional practices unfortuna…

> if you do mediation, you also need yoga Not sure Gautama Buddha did yoga? Don't get me wrong, i am not against yoga, but wondering if great saints who never did yoga also attained greater heights including moksha..

Yoga is only very recently regarded as mostly physical exercise. Of the 8 limbs of yoga only one is Asana (postures)

If you read Patanjali (the foundational text) there is very little or no mention at all of posture.

Re: Anxiety is in your body, not your mind

#124

I think the advice of focusing on how to turn anxiety symptoms down and moderate physical responses are fine, but it's kind of missing the point, at least for serious cases of anxiety. I suffered pretty badly from it in my early 20s (apparently typical age for this kind of stuff), and you go very quickly from particular anxiety attacks being the issue, to fear of anxiety itself being the bigger issue. An anxiety/pani…

I had my first panic/anxiety attack in my mid-20s, and then more frequently in my late 30s. It sucks, and especially the first couple of times you really may have no idea what hit you.

There were a couple of things that ultimately worked for me, although I think it's important to note they may not work for everyone since people are different. What helped was a combination of CBT and Buddha breathing and mindful breathing-focsed meditation. I also became (with the help of my counselor) more self-aware, so I could realize when I was starting to become anxious and use breathing techniques to intervene before it became a full-blown attack.

I don't do it as much now but for quite a while I had a serious journaling habit (I'd go through a Moleskine-sized hardbound notebook every couple of months) and that turned out to be surprisingly helpful; I could get the things that were stressing me out or depressing me written down on paper and out of my head. For me, at least, it worked.

All that said, for someone who's dealing with anxiety, I think the best thing is to talk to a professional.

As for me, things have gotten better; I don't get these attacks so much anymore and a lot of the time I'm able to keep them from escalating into a full blown one just by focusing on breathing for a while.

Re: Anxiety is in your body, not your mind

#125

I noticed as young adult that I didn’t really worry or consciously stress, but my body had somewhat predictable reactions to situations that I would realize, in hindsight, were highly stressful. Those physical reactions sucked, and as they got worse over time, it really concerned me. At some point I was encouraged to go to CBT, which I did, but honestly it made things worse. I became hyper aware of how anxious I was…

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Re: Anxiety is in your body, not your mind

#127
It’s certainly both. “Anxiety” it’s your brains response to given sensory input and tends to trigger a release of cortisol and in more extreme situations adrenaline. While cortisol and adrenaline are normal responses it’s a very slippery slope and they can have extremely negative effects on the body.

The dangers of to much of these hormones come from both chronic exposure for normal sensory inputs like stress at work or school on a daily basis or constant instability like parents fighting regularly to single acute episodes like an extreme traumatic event. Traumatic events tend to alter neural pathways so moving forward even non stressful sensory input can trigger these strengthened pathways putting people in non stressful environments in chronic states of stress.

It’s helpful “not to think about it” whatever “it” is, but it’s often involuntary especially for those that suffered a trauma, as there’s always the risk that you are unknowingly responding to it without even thinking about it and it’s often hard to connect the dots.

The other issue is everything in the body is a feedback loop and hard to break or change. For example even just sitting in a chair all day will shorten you hip flexors, causing unnoticeable discomfort but your brain will notice and respond with release of cortisol which will in turn cause tightening of muscles and myofacia, that will further release cortisol in response to those bodily stresses, and on and on it goes with all kinds of “referred pain” (I hate that term) you do notice in maybe your neck or shoulder(s) or back. And good luck at that point you’ll be treating the area in pain that’s not even actually causing the pain only leading to more chronic stress over the inability to make the pain go away. If you work in an office my guess is you have physical pain, and you can ask anyone else in the office and odds are they have physical pain, and my bet dollars to donuts from arthritis to bursitis to joint pain the vast majority with simply blame it on getting old or some posture issue and not a single one will realize the physical pain and bodily conditions are directly related to stress.

Re: Anxiety is in your body, not your mind

#128
post #25

Eh, a gross oversimplification. Feeling troubled by being anxious in the modern world is a "cerebral" issue. The guy who mistook an innocent animal as a tiger and freaked out because of it didn't feel bad for feeling anxious for no reason. We do. Because it interferes with our daily functioning / responsibilities in the modern world. Anxiety is also very frequently comorbid with other mental disorders. Especially OCD…

I think there's a difference between anxiety and "worry". Anxiety has acute, uncomfortable physical effects. Things like heart palpitations, sweating, shortness of breath. Those are real things that can often be attributed to different kinds of panic disorders.

It's not the same as chronic "worry", or chronic "shame". These are things that live in the mind. Social media, the news, even local news, all contribute to this perpetual state of worry and shame. The "news", even (or maybe especially) local news, will never make you feel good. It will only ever make you feel worried, scared, or disheartened, or ashamed.

I've stopped this daily feeling of worry and shame by:

* Stopped watching the news

* Got my ass off Facebook

That's basically it. In the 3 years since I've done those 2 things my daily mood and outlook on life has increased dramatically. Your mileage may vary.

Re: Anxiety is in your body, not your mind

#129
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really true. They act on GABA, which is the main inhibitory neurotransmitter throughout the central nervous system. So one of the effects is muscle relaxation, but that's only part of their effect.

Maybe it's not strictly true, but got this from Robert Sapolsky (Stanford neurobiology professor): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAOnSbDSaOw&list=PL848F2368C... His opinion, or the best understandings on this, might have changed though. From the YT transcript: > Here's somebody taking Valium for anxiety, and here's somebody taking Valium to relax their muscles. What's up with that? It's the exact same thing. And it…

Going off of the quoted bit because I haven't watched the video, he isn't necessarily suggesting that is the mode of action, just that the mechanism of Valium does both. The mention of GABA enhancement from the comment above alludes to that.

Behavior and attitude can influence each other. For example, happiness makes you smile, but smiling can also make you happy (to some degree). The same works for anxiety in which your mental anxiety can make you physically anxious and vice versa. What he is suggesting here, especially considering the James-Lange mention, is that Valium's mode of action is targeting the behavior side of things for anxiety, but does not exclude it from influencing more than just muscle tension.

I think the general consensus in psychology is that it's neither the mental state nor the physical state (James-Lange) that create emotion, but rather both. Both can instigate responses from each other. Valium simply influences part of the CNS to affect both, but because it's a drug, it inherently affects the "physical state" more directly.

Normal muscle relaxants aren't as effective for anxiety as Valium because they don't have any action on the central nervous system, just the neuromuscular mechanisms. Valium does much more than simply relax muscles. It affects GABA throughout the whole body.

Re: Anxiety is in your body, not your mind

#130
post #58

I noticed as young adult that I didn’t really worry or consciously stress, but my body had somewhat predictable reactions to situations that I would realize, in hindsight, were highly stressful. Those physical reactions sucked, and as they got worse over time, it really concerned me. At some point I was encouraged to go to CBT, which I did, but honestly it made things worse. I became hyper aware of how anxious I was…

Reminded me of a passage from Sapiens on Buddah. "...Gautama Buddah found that there was a way to exit this vicious circle. If, when the mind experiences something pleasant or unpleasant, it simply understand things as they are, then there is no suffering. If you experience sadness without craving that the sadness go away, you continue to feel sadness but you do not suffer from it. There can actually be richness in t…

I’m too ignorant to know the origins of some of these ideas but this reminds me of a segment from a podcast with Joscha Bach. I’ve posted it here before, apologies for that, but i just like the way he describes it.

https://youtu.be/8mixT5_U0hk

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