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Bitcoin's vast energy use could burst its bubble

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Bitcoin's vast energy use could burst its bubble

#41

Post by briefcomment »

pavlov wrote: post #37
briefcomment wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People just want an asset that can't be manipulated away. If it takes tons of energy, or if it totally changes power dynamics, or if we need to transact in different ways, then so be it. No one is going to give up the opportunity to own something like this for any reason. Regardless of whether people like it or not, they will have to adapt, since there is probably no viable way to stop something like this when people…

Many people would choose to dump toxic waste into a river if they can make some money off it. They want it, but that doesn’t mean we have no way to stop them.

The point is a critical mass of people want this to happen. In fact, probably everyone wants this, and they just don't know it yet.

Re: Bitcoin's vast energy use could burst its bubble

#42

Post by dale_glass »

briefcomment wrote: post #8
jmfldn wrote: post #2

""If Bitcoin were to be adopted as a global reserve currency," he speculates, "the Bitcoin price will probably be in the millions, and those miners will have more money than the entire [US] Federal budget to spend on electricity." "We'd have to double our global energy production," he says with a laugh. "For Bitcoin." He says it also limits the number of transactions the system can process to about five per second. T…

People just want an asset that can't be manipulated away. If it takes tons of energy, or if it totally changes power dynamics, or if we need to transact in different ways, then so be it. No one is going to give up the opportunity to own something like this for any reason. Regardless of whether people like it or not, they will have to adapt, since there is probably no viable way to stop something like this when people…

Bitcoin is extremely manipulable. Just look at the fact that the modern BTC no longer complies with its original ideals.

Remember the pizza? Buying games on Steam? All that ended, because the core group controlling bitcoin decided a tiny block size limit suited their interests. This makes perfect sense for people sitting on a hoard of coins and who want to keep on increasing the contention and driving up the value, but has nothing to do whatsoever with the original vision of "A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System".

It's an interesting thing, really. Bitcoin had some successes, but failed at stopping it from being controlled by a central cabal.

Re: Bitcoin's vast energy use could burst its bubble

#43

Post by briefcomment »

BobbyJo wrote: post #40
briefcomment wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People just want an asset that can't be manipulated away. If it takes tons of energy, or if it totally changes power dynamics, or if we need to transact in different ways, then so be it. No one is going to give up the opportunity to own something like this for any reason. Regardless of whether people like it or not, they will have to adapt, since there is probably no viable way to stop something like this when people…

Blockchains would be easy to stop if governments wanted. The power footprint of miners is easy to find, and wallets and transactions are easy to trace. The reality is, if a blockchain ever got large enough and widespread enough to impact a host government's currency, it could be shut down probably overnight.

The people who don't want it won't be able to effectively collude because so many people do want it. Many people will people will change their mind as well. Governments are just people after all.

Re: Bitcoin's vast energy use could burst its bubble

#44

Post by meowkit »

danpalmer wrote: post #19
xyst wrote: post #12

"Proof of stake" to establish distributed consensus will solve the energy problem related to cryptocurrency. Ethereum is one example of such cryptocurrency that uses this mechanism.

Ethereum does not use Proof of Stake, it is a proposed change that is being worked on, with a timeline of several years before it will be put into action, and that's only if the network accepts it.

> timeline of several years

ETH 2.0 has launched in parallel with ETH 1.X. The timeline is ~1 year for final merge, not years. This is potentially going to be accelerated (https://notes.ethereum.org/@vbuterin/B1mUf6DXO).

The "network" doesn't accept anything. ETH updates via hard forks. You either get on the train with the most support, or you don't. The majority wants proof-of-stake and there is already almost 4 million Ether staked on the ETH 2 chain (https://launchpad.ethereum.org/en/).

Re: Bitcoin's vast energy use could burst its bubble

#46

Post by yalogin »

I am afraid the tipping point has long been crossed with BTC. The value accumulated in the ecosystem will sustain it and automatically validate investment in it. Also the community and investors don’t give up after such a high valuation even it’s completely useless. So it’s here to stay.

Re: Bitcoin's vast energy use could burst its bubble

#48

Post by briefcomment »

dale_glass wrote: post #42
briefcomment wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People just want an asset that can't be manipulated away. If it takes tons of energy, or if it totally changes power dynamics, or if we need to transact in different ways, then so be it. No one is going to give up the opportunity to own something like this for any reason. Regardless of whether people like it or not, they will have to adapt, since there is probably no viable way to stop something like this when people…

Bitcoin is extremely manipulable. Just look at the fact that the modern BTC no longer complies with its original ideals. Remember the pizza? Buying games on Steam? All that ended, because the core group controlling bitcoin decided a tiny block size limit suited their interests. This makes perfect sense for people sitting on a hoard of coins and who want to keep on increasing the contention and driving up the value, b…

It could be bitcoin, it could be something with a bigger block, but it will be the hardest thing to manipulate away.

Re: Bitcoin's vast energy use could burst its bubble

#49

Post by briefcomment »

newnamenewface wrote: post #32
briefcomment wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People just want an asset that can't be manipulated away. If it takes tons of energy, or if it totally changes power dynamics, or if we need to transact in different ways, then so be it. No one is going to give up the opportunity to own something like this for any reason. Regardless of whether people like it or not, they will have to adapt, since there is probably no viable way to stop something like this when people…

Well, there's one very real way that complex financial instruments disappear in a huff. Bitcoin has only existed for less than 15 years. There's no indication that it's invincible to, say, a bubble burst and rapid permanent devaluation besides it having not happened yet. If in 86 years this is still the case, you could maybe convince me I won't see it in my lifetime, but just barely.

I mean, it's going to do its thing whether you are convinced or not.
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