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MiSTer, an open-source FPGA gaming project

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11–20 of 111 posts

Re: MiSTer, an open-source FPGA gaming project

#11
post #7

I'd really like to see a portable/handheld leverage this technology for on-the-go gaming.

The Analogue Pocket[1] is exactly this (albeit proprietary). Out of the box it recreates GB, GBC, and GBA using the Altera Cyclone-V platform. [1] https://www.analogue.co/pocket

I wonder, why is there no DIY Analogue Pocket-style MiSTer project? Is the DE10-Nano too large or inefficient for this?

Re: MiSTer, an open-source FPGA gaming project

#12
post #6

This isn't really new, right? I've heard of this years ago. But it is an amazing project. Instead of emulating, they actually rebuilt the old custom ICs (which 8-bit computers were full of) in an FPGA. Really impressive.

It is indeed an amazing project, especially its open source nature. It provides some impressive power savings and latency reductions that are very hard to match with general purpose CPUs. But in most cases, it is emulation, as the lead developer will attest. https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki/Why-FPGA "From my point of view, if the FPGA code is based on the circuitry of real hardware (along with the usu…

Well, yeah, it's not replication if it's not an exact hardware replica, but the word "emulation" has very "software" connotations. I guess let's call it.. recreation? (That word is even in the quote above!)

Re: MiSTer, an open-source FPGA gaming project

#13
post #6

This isn't really new, right? I've heard of this years ago. But it is an amazing project. Instead of emulating, they actually rebuilt the old custom ICs (which 8-bit computers were full of) in an FPGA. Really impressive.

It is indeed an amazing project, especially its open source nature. It provides some impressive power savings and latency reductions that are very hard to match with general purpose CPUs. But in most cases, it is emulation, as the lead developer will attest. https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki/Why-FPGA "From my point of view, if the FPGA code is based on the circuitry of real hardware (along with the usu…

So it's not perfect but it's better than emulators...

Re: MiSTer, an open-source FPGA gaming project

#14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Analogue Pocket[1] is exactly this (albeit proprietary). Out of the box it recreates GB, GBC, and GBA using the Altera Cyclone-V platform. [1] https://www.analogue.co/pocket

I wonder, why is there no DIY Analogue Pocket-style MiSTer project? Is the DE10-Nano too large or inefficient for this?

The limited market is problably covered with Odroid Go / GPD XD / RG350M etc. Mister leverages an off the shelf FPGA board that would require a lot more work in a handheld form.

Re: MiSTer, an open-source FPGA gaming project

#15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Analogue Pocket[1] is exactly this (albeit proprietary). Out of the box it recreates GB, GBC, and GBA using the Altera Cyclone-V platform. [1] https://www.analogue.co/pocket

I wonder, why is there no DIY Analogue Pocket-style MiSTer project? Is the DE10-Nano too large or inefficient for this?

I’d reckon it’s the same reason that there isn’t much of a custom laptop scene. The open ended nature of stuffing a screen, battery, and input peripherals into a chassis seems an order of magnitude more difficult than just making a headless box to plug into your TV.

But with some effort, it would be awesome.

Re: MiSTer, an open-source FPGA gaming project

#16
post #5

I don’t really know much about game emulation so I was curious about what differentiates this FPGA game project vs traditional CPU emulation. From their github page [1]: >Traditional emulators on CPUs execute code sequentially. This is a tricky method of emulation because real hardware has many chips and all of them work in parallel...This requires a lot of CPU power to emulate even an old and slow retro computer. So…

byuu wrote a good article about this, unfortunately it's no longer available, but basically it should be self-evident that there's nothing inherently more accurate about hardware emulation.

If you've actually decapped the original chips and duplicated them exactly in an FPGA, that's pretty cool. But otherwise it's just another approximation. The lower power requirements are nice, of course.

Re: MiSTer, an open-source FPGA gaming project

#17
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it really is an amazing application for FPGAs—preserving computing and gaming history. The list of cores available for MiSTer is simply staggering: > Computers - Classic • Acorn Archimedes • Acorn Atom • Alice MC10 • Altair 8800 • Amiga • Amstrad CPC 6128 • Amstrad PCW • ao486 (PC 486) • Apogee • Apple I • Apple II+ • Apple Macintosh Plus • Aquarius • Atari 800XL • Atari ST/STe • BBC Micro B,Master • BK0011M •…

I'm still waiting for the KENBAK-1 core.

Is there good documentation or ICDs out there that adequately describe the architecture? Looks like there’s only 50 that were ever made, and only 14 believed to exist today.

Re: MiSTer, an open-source FPGA gaming project

#18
post #13
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is indeed an amazing project, especially its open source nature. It provides some impressive power savings and latency reductions that are very hard to match with general purpose CPUs. But in most cases, it is emulation, as the lead developer will attest. https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki/Why-FPGA "From my point of view, if the FPGA code is based on the circuitry of real hardware (along with the usu…

So it's not perfect but it's better than emulators...

In latency and power usage, yes. In compatibility and accuracy, no. Both are Turing complete, so there's nothing you can do with one that you can't do with the other.

If you take the SNES core, my software emulator has 100% compatibility and no known bugs, and synchronizes all components at the raw clock cycle level. It also mitigates most of the latency concern through a technique known as run-ahead. But it does require more power to do this.

Re: MiSTer, an open-source FPGA gaming project

#19
post #13
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is indeed an amazing project, especially its open source nature. It provides some impressive power savings and latency reductions that are very hard to match with general purpose CPUs. But in most cases, it is emulation, as the lead developer will attest. https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki/Why-FPGA "From my point of view, if the FPGA code is based on the circuitry of real hardware (along with the usu…

So it's not perfect but it's better than emulators...

I'm really curious where you got "better" out of the quoted text. Because it's not there or implied, but people keep reading this into anything about fpga recreations of chips. There's nothing inherently better about doing emulation on an fpga or a cpu, other than basically the amount of electricity involved in doing it.

But people keep presuming an improved accuracy that there's no basis for.

Re: MiSTer, an open-source FPGA gaming project

#20
post #16
post #5

I don’t really know much about game emulation so I was curious about what differentiates this FPGA game project vs traditional CPU emulation. From their github page [1]: >Traditional emulators on CPUs execute code sequentially. This is a tricky method of emulation because real hardware has many chips and all of them work in parallel...This requires a lot of CPU power to emulate even an old and slow retro computer. So…

byuu wrote a good article about this, unfortunately it's no longer available, but basically it should be self-evident that there's nothing inherently more accurate about hardware emulation. If you've actually decapped the original chips and duplicated them exactly in an FPGA, that's pretty cool. But otherwise it's just another approximation. The lower power requirements are nice, of course.

Actually decapping the original chips is very much a thing. See for example Chris Smith's work mapping out the innards of the ZX Spectrum ULA - http://www.zxdesign.info/book/insideULA.shtml .
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