Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 361 posts

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#81

Post by jcranmer »

Scoundreller wrote: post #18
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #4

There is no reason to fly short distance if you want to go from city center to city center. However, if you're already arriving or leaving on a long distance flight, the whole overhead of getting to/from/through the airport disappears and those 1.5 hours start making a difference. I think forcing companies to advertise more honest flight durations and prices could make a huge difference. If the airline tells you that…

I largely agree. One issue with France is that their train system is very Paris-centric. Want to go from the Rennes northwest to the Toulouse in the southwest? Yeah, you’re going to go through Paris in the centre of the country. Same with Bordeaux to Lyon. Takes about the same time driving as high-speed rail takes a horseshoe route.

This is caused in large part by the French economy and transportation needs largely being Paris-centric--the Paris metro is larger than the next 10 largest cities combined.

(Admittedly, a Bordeaux-Toulouse-Montpelier-Marseille-Nice connection in the south is probably a viable TGV route. But at a quick glance, that's probably the only viable non-via-Paris route I see.)

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#82

Post by Mister_Snuggles »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #4

There is no reason to fly short distance if you want to go from city center to city center. However, if you're already arriving or leaving on a long distance flight, the whole overhead of getting to/from/through the airport disappears and those 1.5 hours start making a difference. I think forcing companies to advertise more honest flight durations and prices could make a huge difference. If the airline tells you that…

I used to regularly travel from Edmonton to Calgary for work. When you add up the extra time required for flying, it's about a three hour trip (45 minutes in the air, the rest is getting to the airport, checking in, etc). Coincidentally, it's also about a three hour drive.

My reasons for driving vs flying were usually to do with how long I'd be there. If I was going for one day then flying was preferable since falling asleep on the way home isn't a big deal. If I was going for multiple days then driving was preferable so that I'd have a car and be able to go places after finishing at the office. Flying was preferable in winter in case the roads were in bad shape. Driving was preferable on Fridays so that I could visit friends afterwards and come back the next day. Flying was preferable during the Calgary Stampede to avoid having to deal with the excess traffic in Calgary (plus WestJet did a cowboy-themed safety lecture during Stampede which was kind of neat).

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#83

Post by im3w1l »

ajross wrote: post #42
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #4

There is no reason to fly short distance if you want to go from city center to city center. However, if you're already arriving or leaving on a long distance flight, the whole overhead of getting to/from/through the airport disappears and those 1.5 hours start making a difference. I think forcing companies to advertise more honest flight durations and prices could make a huge difference. If the airline tells you that…

> There is no reason to fly short distance if you want to go from city center to city center. In France. In nations like the US (outside the DC-to-Boston corridor anyway) without a well-designed and -maintained rail infastructure, 1-2 hour flights are routine and not really replaceable with other options. Infrastructure investment pays off for decades and decades, and Europe has done really well here. > However, if y…

Responding to your 2nd point, kind of and kind of not. It's not just that air->train is hard, it's also that air->air is easy. You don't pay the cost of an additional security check or the cost of an additional drive to the airport. Even with a train directly connecting to the airport, the flight option may come out ahead.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#84

Post by bertil »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #4

There is no reason to fly short distance if you want to go from city center to city center. However, if you're already arriving or leaving on a long distance flight, the whole overhead of getting to/from/through the airport disappears and those 1.5 hours start making a difference. I think forcing companies to advertise more honest flight durations and prices could make a huge difference. If the airline tells you that…

I like your idea of forcing sites selling airline tickets to be honest about their cost and delays, but… after the fiasco of cookie-warning pop-ups, that’s a particularly promising can of worms.

> if you're already arriving or leaving on a long distance flight, the whole overhead of getting to/from/through the airport disappears

About connecting flights: most major French airports have a high-speed train (TGV) station for that reason. They typically have fewer trains than central stations, but they have good connections to nearby cities with small regional airports.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#85

Post by realusername »

EdwinLarkin wrote: post #30
realusername wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only answer is price in France, that's it. Time-wise that's about the same, trains are very fast and planes have a longer travel from the city center so that's even it out.

Any source on this or it's just your assumption that trains are faster and more reliable? I doubt that would be the case in France especially when it comes to trains.

If you're thinking about strikes, airplanes also have their fair share of strikes in France.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#86

Post by marcandre »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #4

There is no reason to fly short distance if you want to go from city center to city center. However, if you're already arriving or leaving on a long distance flight, the whole overhead of getting to/from/through the airport disappears and those 1.5 hours start making a difference. I think forcing companies to advertise more honest flight durations and prices could make a huge difference. If the airline tells you that…

The website fromrome2rio includes transfer times, wait times and costs too.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#87

Post by jkepler »

gsnedders wrote: post #75
Scoundreller wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I largely agree. One issue with France is that their train system is very Paris-centric. Want to go from the Rennes northwest to the Toulouse in the southwest? Yeah, you’re going to go through Paris in the centre of the country. Same with Bordeaux to Lyon. Takes about the same time driving as high-speed rail takes a horseshoe route.

> One issue with France is that their train system is very Paris-centric. I mean it's not just the rail network; it's _all_ of France. Some of that is unsurprising given a 1/5th of the population live in Paris and the surrounding area. A significant amount of business travel from outside of Paris resultantly ends up being to Paris. There's definitely an argument that investing in infrastructure that isn't centred on…

« (And something like Bordeaux to Lyon needs to cross the Massif Central, which will significantly increase the cost of construction, which potentially makes it even less likely to happen.) »

Indeed. Currently by train, Bordeaux to Lyon would either go via Paris, or via Toulouse/Montpellier. Building train lines across the Massif Central doesn't really make economic sense due to the sparse population density.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#88

Post by bertil »

Scoundreller wrote: post #18
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #4

There is no reason to fly short distance if you want to go from city center to city center. However, if you're already arriving or leaving on a long distance flight, the whole overhead of getting to/from/through the airport disappears and those 1.5 hours start making a difference. I think forcing companies to advertise more honest flight durations and prices could make a huge difference. If the airline tells you that…

I largely agree. One issue with France is that their train system is very Paris-centric. Want to go from the Rennes northwest to the Toulouse in the southwest? Yeah, you’re going to go through Paris in the centre of the country. Same with Bordeaux to Lyon. Takes about the same time driving as high-speed rail takes a horseshoe route.

Are there direct flights though?

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#89

Post by multiplegeorges »

EdwinLarkin wrote: post #52

Essentially all this is is a tax on quality of life. Quality of life will decrease for rich nations for nothing as all the environmental gains will be offset by emerging economies. China will continue to build more and its population will also continue to consume more.

You're right, we should do nothing.
Post reply on HN