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French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

reuters.com

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Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#21

Post by simias »

bpodgursky wrote: post #2

Maybe they should ask themselves _why_ someone would take a flight instead of a 2.5 hour train ride? There's really no reason a human would try to fly instead of take a train, if the trains were functioning at high efficiency. Flying sucks. And yet...

The plane industry is heavily subsidized and manages to get (IMO absurdly) low prices for some rides, and there are some situations where it's more convenient to take a plane than the train (for instance if you arrive from a long distance plane trip and are already at the airport).

French trains, especially the high speed ones, are very comfortable and "high efficiency". They can be pretty expensive however.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#22

Post by xur17 »

medium_burrito wrote: post #7
bpodgursky wrote: post #2

Maybe they should ask themselves _why_ someone would take a flight instead of a 2.5 hour train ride? There's really no reason a human would try to fly instead of take a train, if the trains were functioning at high efficiency. Flying sucks. And yet...

Because light rail/bus to airport is cheap, and $25 fares are cheap. And the trains are expensive. Now, why is flying so cheap vs a train? The whole the US government essentially gives away 737s at a loss to employ people might be one part of it? Nobody is giving away free trains that I know of.

> The whole the US government essentially gives away 737s at a loss to employ people might be one part of it?

Do you have more information on this? Is the US government subsidizing aircraft manufacturing or something?

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#23

Post by realusername »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #13
Sharlin wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France has one of the best and fastest train systems in the world. There's really no reason for people to fly, but they still do.

Clearly there's a reason if they're doing it! People are asking what that reason is.

The only answer is price in France, that's it. Time-wise that's about the same, trains are very fast and planes have a longer travel from the city center so that's even it out.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#24

Post by nraynaud »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #4

There is no reason to fly short distance if you want to go from city center to city center. However, if you're already arriving or leaving on a long distance flight, the whole overhead of getting to/from/through the airport disappears and those 1.5 hours start making a difference. I think forcing companies to advertise more honest flight durations and prices could make a huge difference. If the airline tells you that…

remember that now you're supposed to be in the train 20min in advance, and connecting across stations in Paris with heavy luggage and kids is a shit show (and a non-starter for foreigners, they just call a taxi, and as the most visited country in the world, this detail should matter)

But I hope it increases the frequency of bullet trains to and from CDG TGV, this train station never had a useful train time for my airplane. Lyon Airport is very easy to reach by train, too bad it has almost no airplane.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#25

Post by flavius29663 »

medium_burrito wrote: post #7
bpodgursky wrote: post #2

Maybe they should ask themselves _why_ someone would take a flight instead of a 2.5 hour train ride? There's really no reason a human would try to fly instead of take a train, if the trains were functioning at high efficiency. Flying sucks. And yet...

Because light rail/bus to airport is cheap, and $25 fares are cheap. And the trains are expensive. Now, why is flying so cheap vs a train? The whole the US government essentially gives away 737s at a loss to employ people might be one part of it? Nobody is giving away free trains that I know of.

Trains are heavily subsidized in Europe. E.g. Germany paid 17 billions in a single year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_subsidies#Europe

How many 737s would that buy, per year? around 40-50? This is Germany alone, the rest of Europe is just the same

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#26

Post by bombcar »

bpodgursky wrote: post #2

Maybe they should ask themselves _why_ someone would take a flight instead of a 2.5 hour train ride? There's really no reason a human would try to fly instead of take a train, if the trains were functioning at high efficiency. Flying sucks. And yet...

The most common reason to take a short domestic flight is that you just arrived on a longer international flight - hub and spoke. Fly into LA and the fly to San Diego kinda thing.

This may actually INCREASE emissions as now there will me smaller “direct” flights from out of country instead of them all going through major hubs.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#27

Post by Sharlin »

EdwinLarkin wrote: post #20
Sharlin wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France has one of the best and fastest train systems in the world. There's really no reason for people to fly, but they still do.

No it does not.if it is faster to fly most people will choose to fly.

Not if the speed comes with a price tag that properly accounts for externalities. Cheap flights are a market failure, plain and simple. Besides, on short flights the relative overhead of getting to/from the airport, and spending time on the airport waiting, is especially high, whereas with trains the overhead is minimal.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#28

Post by efwfhfasljd »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #4

There is no reason to fly short distance if you want to go from city center to city center. However, if you're already arriving or leaving on a long distance flight, the whole overhead of getting to/from/through the airport disappears and those 1.5 hours start making a difference. I think forcing companies to advertise more honest flight durations and prices could make a huge difference. If the airline tells you that…

UX is also being neglected by train companies, and especially between train companies.

I think it would be a great enhancement if we had a European booking system that'd provide single-ticket journeys no matter which operator, and a Google-Flights-like UX.

Right now, the German DB got me into a mindset of adding an extra hour between transits, and assume that the train might skip my destination entirely. And if I file a complaint? Well, that's already part of the price!

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#29

Post by hourislate »

medium_burrito wrote: post #7
bpodgursky wrote: post #2

Maybe they should ask themselves _why_ someone would take a flight instead of a 2.5 hour train ride? There's really no reason a human would try to fly instead of take a train, if the trains were functioning at high efficiency. Flying sucks. And yet...

Because light rail/bus to airport is cheap, and $25 fares are cheap. And the trains are expensive. Now, why is flying so cheap vs a train? The whole the US government essentially gives away 737s at a loss to employ people might be one part of it? Nobody is giving away free trains that I know of.

>The whole the US government essentially gives away 737s at a loss

Did you mean Boeing?

I imagine flying is cheaper because the cost associated with the Rail Infrastructure is much higher than with the open sky and aircraft.

Re: French lawmakers approve a ban on short domestic flights

#30

Post by EdwinLarkin »

realusername wrote: post #23
HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearly there's a reason if they're doing it! People are asking what that reason is.

The only answer is price in France, that's it. Time-wise that's about the same, trains are very fast and planes have a longer travel from the city center so that's even it out.

Any source on this or it's just your assumption that trains are faster and more reliable? I doubt that would be the case in France especially when it comes to trains.
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